An idea for VB and FF to have better & more accurate prediction

[viper5]

We all know the scatter graph that Forester made with 2 different rotor speeds.
In these 2 deferent speeds the behavior of the scatter of the ball was completely deferent.

So the major question and observation is:

WHAT is the meaning of knowing with the VB or with the FF (or any other RC) the number that will be at the strike point, IF the ball is gona behave COMPLETELY different with different rotor speeds?

In order to win, we need the number that the ball is going to land in the end and NOT the strike number.

So from the above FACT (the test of Forester in 2 deferent rotor speeds) the conclusion is that EVERY rotor speed has its own scatter PATTERN!!!(And this could be deferent in an other wheel of course)

So the average scatter SHOULDD NOT (!!!!!!!) be calculated from the strike point!!! But from the Strike point or the reference number under the DD in EVERYYYY deferent speed!!!
So in other words WE MUST observe and look for the average offset of EVERY speed of the rotor!!!

WE MUST TREAT EVERY ROTOR SPEED DEFRENTLY!!!

In my opinion this is the only way to win...because the average Offset in 1 given rotor speed could be 18 and in an other rotor speed 6. So the average offset from the strike number is USSELES if the rotor speed in that spin is deferent.

[Myrulet-admin]

Wrongly represented but interesting point.

Before any answer we need to understand what the advantage play is.
It's obviously a play where we have advantage, it is our choice where and when we want to play.

The graph has small mistake.
The blue line is where the rotor speed is in-between 5-6 seconds per rotation.
But red line has written 2-5 sec/r where it should be when the rotor is about 2.5 sec per rotation.

5.5 sec rotor and 2.5 rotor speed is difference as in between earth and sky.
If someone can't spot such difference he should never play roulette.
In this particular case we do have scatter change but it doesn't have to be.

This scatter was taken on Huxley tilted wheel and with particular ball type.

You were not here long enough but years back I was the first one who brought this issue to public. First time I talked about it with Bob Gordon and Barnett when we had some discussions.  Did you ever see at any other place any graph or data about deviation of ball jumps? No you did not. But you probably did see some smart heads trying to be smart.

If I was the one who brought it up then obviously there is and reason why FF is designed the way it is designed.

Look on the graph pick point A, it is strong and solid,
With highly increased rotor speed it decreases I value but more importantly it shifts and becomes point B.
When on particular parameters presets, the rotor is 2.5 sec we can see that point B is not high enough to be worth playing. But when looking thought deviation on rotor speed on 6,5,4,3 sec, it is worth playing.

For that all we need to see how much the point A shifts.
From 6 sec rotor to 2.5 sec rotor it shifts about 4 pockets.  (Point A to point B)

From 6 sec rotor to 3.5 it will shift about 3 pockets and that is what the FF will adjust.
Any deviation of that can be easily adjusted with the FF system.
For example to make for rotor from 6 to 3 sec shift by 1,2,3,4…10 amounts of pockets.

Now is coming a hard part.

At 2.5 sec rotor we have pick point C which is worth playing.
Yes we do, but that can't be linearly adjusted it is a big jump and it happens in this particular scenario. 

If you played 5 sec rotor and suddenly dealer spins 2 sec rotor only if you are an idiot you would play serious money on that. No matter which kind of prediction you use. So do not play, it is not advantage play and I will explain why.

You may take 1000 spins as I did to get similar graph. And you may say, aha now is the time to play 14 pockets less from my previous play (based on 1000 spins graph).

But who is telling you that conditions on the wheel are still the same as when you were taking 1000 spins to make the graph. Maybe the ball is different, maybe there is more dust on the wheel, more oil…etc. So it is not sure.

It is only beginning of your trouble.

2 or 2.5 sec rotor is fast, it creates air turbulence, causes significant change of air pressure around the ball, and effects ball traveling time. What is the effect we do not know, it depends on airflow, on ball weight, diameter…etc. Too many unknown variables to be able to calculate anything (if you are honest).
But if we have stable prediction as the FF will provide then we can easy see what the change is. We do not need to know how the change is created, all we need is to notice the change.

If you play VB which in any way relates to rotor speed you are already screwed, on top of that you have optical illusion because changed rotor speed in opposite direction of ball makes look everything differently. With FF we do not have such problem but we have to observe if there is any change in ball drop point to rotor.

As long as we have it under control we can play.

Lets look now different scenario.
Let's say 3.5 sec rotor the ball scatter makes equal points B and C.
(We took about 2000 spins and defined ball scatter for different rotor speeds.)

We want to make computer to toggle it and adjust automatically.

So at 3.7s rotor the computer goes for point B and at 3.2s rotor it goes for point C.

What would we see on the wheel?
Do we know what to expect?
Do we know if we have advantage?

If previously we played 5.5 sec rotor and now rotor is around 3.5 sec. if computer is made that way we would be lost. We wouldn't be able to know if there is any difference in ball traveling time. The simplest question is what would be point of playing?
We are advantage players we play when we know that we have advantage.

If we have stable prediction without computer screwing us up, we at least can see if we have advantage or not. It is up to us now will we play point B or point C.

If someone wants program to deviate in predictions with any jumps of pockets let me know, it is only 5 min job for me. And linear change you can adjust by yourself if you follow instructions. But in many occasions it would be a suicide.

Somewhere Kelly wrote?

“Im not into the technicalitys of foresters computer, but i don`t understand why a device can`t store scatter and wheel speed  data and use it combined? “

Obviously he is not in to technicalities but not in common since as well.
No wonder every times he argues with me he runs away then goes around bragging how i was wrong.

No computer stores data of rotor speed, it is something that is measured during the play.
But we can assign for every rotor speed particular ball jump. So the computer would never need scatter graph but the graph of scatter deviation based rotor speed changes.
As I explained earlier we would need thousands of spins to get it.

Let's say 500 spins to get ball scatter for 2 sec rotor then another 500 spins to get most common ball jump for 3 sec rotor and so on. It is a mission impossible.

It is important to understand here that such graphs would have to be taken independently.
So we would need to measure rotor speed, and take data for each rotor speed then group them.

(I better explain it  since people without much understanding can easy get manipulated by well known manipulators on the net. )

Some people sell mobile phone or PDA roulette computer where they build graphs, but graphs they build are useless.
It is graph based on PREDITED number and FINAL outcome.

From such graph we really can't make any adjustments. (Anyway the graph is missing rotor speed)
Even if the computer builds 20 graphs for one single wheel, each graph 500 spins, for different rotor speeds we would still have problem getting data we need, because result is combination of imperfections in prediction combined with randomness of ball jumps.
(we need data how much the ball jump)

We would play and have no clued what to do. The ball can get some oil/dust and for such graphs to respond to such change we would need thousand off spins to notice that we are not playing with an advantage.

Playing roulette with advantage is dynamic game; we need to be able to play it fast and to respond fast if we want to keep advantage. For that we need somethig stable as the FF is.




Red graph is analyzed 100 spins from Stefano's DVD that he supplies with his computer.
After I made analyses which showing embarrassing results, of course he doesn't supplies it any more.
It represents his predictions vs. ball hits on rotor.
There is nothing in there except RANDOM results.
(notice that the line deviates around 2.7 which is expected if we play without advantage and that all together is below green line. The green line is limit which we need to pass to start getting advantage.
Lately he starts explaining it is because his computer knows how the bill will jump based on rotor speed.
Well for your information all spins are with close to same rotor speed about 5-6 sec. per rotation.   


I am not going to compete with scam empty promises or stupidities people write on the net to increase system sales. I leave that to scammers.

So Mr. Viper if you want any kind of adjustment, linear, unexpected jumps, logarithmic, exponential. Give me the data sad you will have it. 

So the average offset from the strike number is USSELES if the rotor speed in that spin is deferent.

Not really, but you shouldn't play so fast rotor, leave that for more experienced players 

[viper5]

"""But we can assign for every rotor speed particular ball jump. So the computer would never need scatter graph but the graph of scatter deviation based rotor speed changes. """"

This is what i am talking about.

.................

So the advice that U give is to play ONLY similar rotor speeds...

I already knew that...LOL

But the point is to be able to be flexible. I am takling about a more flexible play here and not the traditional limited play.

And my general point of this thread is that we need to GIVE more attention to the scater...because the strike point can NOT make us any money

[securityman]

Hi MEN JUST DUG THIS UP

a nine number arc would cover most speeds

what you think viper5

ok hopefully forester will post it soon as i have problems uploading it

man why is always me i always have problems aways need extra help than most my dvd problems ,my half rotor clcoking bad interpretation of iqe6 and ,and ,,,and well

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AARGH

[Myrulet-admin]

This is securitymans chart for rotor 2-3 sec.
According to his chart the ball on 2 sec rotor will in average jump 7 pockets extra.
It is linear jumps.

What viper was questioning was when the pick point is not shifting but when it is at completely different place.


I do not know who made this char but obviously someone who played VB.

I would like to make recommendation.

One or the other way you are measuring rotor to define speed in between 2 and 3 sec per rotation. I assume you observe rotor in particular time interval, notice how many pockets it makes then convert it to rotor time per rotation then convert it back to pockets to know how much to shift observation point. It is retarded way.

 
Foresters way would be
Observe the rotor change.

For example 2 sec rotor made in 2 sec. of  reference time one rotation =37 pockets. From your defined rotation together with average ball jump it traveled 204 pockets.

3 sec rotor from your rotation with ball ump traveled 21.4 pockets

204-131.4 =72.6 pockets
That is deviation in rotor traveling from 2 to 3 sec rotor based on your remaining time.

(37/2)*2=37
How much 2 sec rotor makes in 2 sec observation time

(37/3)*2=24.6
How much 3 sec rotor makes in 2 sec observation time


37-24.6=12.4
The difference in observation of rotor pockets in 2 sec time

72.6/12.3=5.9

5.9 is your miracle number but you can use 6.

All you need to do is shift observation point by 6 pockets for each pocket of difference that rotor makes in your reference time.

Once when you are familiar with this your play will be much easier.
For example by your chart 3 sec rotor you play at 6 o clock.

Next spin the rotor makes 6 pockets more in observed 2 sec time frame.
6x6=36
Shift your observation point by 35-36 pockets in ball direction.
Can't be simpler.

Is it correct?
Le'ts check it.
3 sec rotor makes 24.6 pockets in 2 sec.
We said in next spin the rotor made 6 more pockets.
So it would be 24.6+6=30.6
30.6 pockets in 2 sec is 15.3 pockets per sec.
37/15.3= 2.4 sec rotor
In your chart you do not have it but for 2.5s rotor the chart tells you to shift by 28 pockets therefore for 2.4s it is ok.

Now when you know all of this your game is much easier to play.
After some time your offset may change. (for example your remaining time is 11 sec)
But your magic number “6” is still the same, all you need to do is to readjust offset and from that point again apply same principle. Sure 6 was actually 5.9 after change it may be 6.2 but applying 6 is still ok because main difference form 10 s to 11 sec you adjusted with offset  by shifting your observation point.






 

[forester]

Viper did you know with your post you become a fan of Stefano.
He start writing about you.

As in usual he misinterprets everything and somehow everything again is my fault.

Since he advertising that he is “giving away roulette computers to players” why don't you ask him for one for testing?

I like when people follow words with action.

[viper5]

A question of me and an attack from Bruce man made him to COOK again the things and tell his scam words once again...

He has forgotten that with his video to decay the FFZ in fact he advertized it very well because the predictions was spot on...

also he has forgotten that when all of us did comparing test to his video of his RC test we won a lot more with FFA.

But I can admit Forester that u were right...he is very tricky and he uses nice words....

anyone with not understanding in VB and NOT seen his samming actions he can really believe him...

where are all the GW customers that paid to him 2.500 dollars to buy some useless pages that he wrote ??

[forester]

""But we can assign for every rotor speed particular ball jump. So the computer would never need scatter graph but the graph of scatter deviation based rotor speed changes.

This is what i am talking about.

 I explained to you how many spins you will need to define scatter deviation with various rotor speeds.

What kid that finished high school from Melbourne is doing, is only recording spins then analyzing video in slow motion write timings entering it in computer. It's because he doesn't know better way to manage rotor deceleration. Now he claims that is actually for scatter deviation.

In some countries to finish high school is something but in Australia some kids do not know basic. That is why I stopped any discussions and giving lessons with and to him.
 

I explained to you that FF already adjusting for basic linear shifting.
For drastic shift as it is displayed on the graph, sure you can have it but I do not recommend it also I explained reasons. It will be worst! You will never be able to notice if there is any change on the wheel. If you can't do it you will not be able to keep advantage. But as I said earlier, get data and i'll explain how to make it.

So the advice that U give is to play ONLY similar rotor speeds...
I already knew that...LOL

Well 3,4,5,6,7,8…16 sec rotor is not similar speeds and it is large area to play.
Problem in displayed graph is only when you switch from slow rotor to rotor under 2.5 sec.

I explained why any toggling in between point A and C would be disaster for a player.

If you spent time in casino and played much as I did you would understand it easier.

Same applies to Stefano, he never plays and wants to teach me what is better for me as a player.

Once you are experienced and skilled player the FFZ is a masterpiece.

It is amazing how much people silly can be.
According to Mark I copied his software and I am dumb because I can decode some satellite streams. According to Stefano I copied his computer options. His computer can do everything as mine and more. But in same time he is winging if I publish or analyze video of how well his computer is performing. He complained when Bago (Stefano's ex customer) published  graphs with hard prove of his computer as a scam.

After all making computer is much easier then explaining to scammer that he is a scammer. No matter how hard arguments you have he will never accept it simply because he lives form scam.

[viper5]

I know man.

Do not worry.

all his scamed customers will come to u next.

[forester]

all his scamed customers will come to u next

many are already here 

Today I was reading posts around and had the best laugh.

Silly Stefano copied my calculation from post above then copied where I said it “can't be simpler that that”.

Then claiming that I am lying because it isn't simple enough for him so he can understand it. 

“He says "cant be simpler"?? Wow. This is what you need to learn about forester, securityman: he is a liar.”

As it is my fault if he can't understand and if he has no opportunity to ask me to explain it.


Then I read post of Kelly claiming how bias man stole chart from him then he says it is not his chart. But anyway the chart is for amateurs. People stuck on only one way of thinking. So read carefully what I was explaining, once you understand it you do not need charts, you do not need cards you just play any wheel at any time moment.

Then I read how ball jumps more on faster rotor. As nobody knows it.
Then they claim how FF doesn't do anything about it as they designed it not myself.
Lol it is only one variable needed. And for them that is something special.

What I was explaining is only 3 levels higher from level they think and understand, when conditions are met where the balls power is absorbed by high impact with rotor and where the ball behaves out of order. That was the vipers question but they simply couldn't understand and continue talking about linear adjustment. It looks that viper for spending 6 months here knows more then Stefano and Kelly together. You simply can't mess with back bouncing and toggle predictions.

kelly

“Imp fine with you taking my picks and putting them in a thread where forester bashes me and at the same time uses the pic. Quite amusing actually.”

Forester definitely will never use anything from that pictures, even years back  I wouldn't use it. Since I made recommendation  and suggested to anyone to not use it but to learn better way as explained. It isn't wise to jump from horse to donkey. And I am not bashing anyone, I only present facts.

I really do not know what is wrong with Kelly, few months ago he wrote at GG how I couldn't understand cross patterns. I copy him post where even Laurence few years back said I wouldn't explain it better myself. (I think he mixes me with MH , maybe he drinks to much) It all started when Kelly couldn't understand 2 pin game and why it's not better to play first diamond under all conditions as he thought it is.

There are people that understand and lead and there are followers.
Of course and scammers, they have problem of understanding and they can't even follow. 

So viper are you getting that roulette computer from Stefano to compare it with FF or he is only making manipulations as in usual?

I think it is a good proposal since he advertises that he wants players. 

[viper5]

Forester I did spoke with Steve with 1 email and he proposed me to speak with him via Skype.

He said that he would like to explain to me why he claims that U are a scam(for him) and that he would like to make me an offer.

I know for sure that U are not a scam and the reasons are 2

1)U were so good with me and U spent a lot of hours talking with me in msn as a teacher in VB and RC and as a good friend. Everything that U explained to me ,when I did test them I saw that was 100% real!!!

2)I had the FFA and I tested it to death in various wheels and I saw by 1st hand that the FF DOES give an advantage.

Now this man named Steve/Stefano wants to explain me somethings...I am an open minded person and this man has never scamed at me ,either I have ever tested anything that he made!

He also claims that his RC gives better advantage than FF! I can t judge anything without testing first

So I would like to see also from 1st hand IF he is a scam or NOT...all of U here are telling that he is a scam...
I need to find out myself what he really is.

Maby this is his ONLY chance to win the respect from all in here. But he should be very carefull because he will maby do everything wrong and loss even more respect!

U all here know that I have the knowledje of VB and of what is going on in a wheel during a spin and that I am also a very good RC clocker.

so IF he will dare to give me his RC to test then I belive that he is NOT a scam!!!
But if he will refuse to sent the RC to me(after he posted in VLS  that he HOPES that i will exept his offer) then the man is a big scam.

Let the man do his moves....

Now he is commited...if he will act like a chicken...then it is obvious that is a real scam.

Truth will revail...Nothing is secret under the sun.

Also Forester U know that I am a man that I speak only the truth!

If his RC is superior than FF...I will post it here.

[forester]

I never had problem with the truth.

Until now after promise Stefano just runs away and finds excuse to not test it.
Then he goes around  forums and brags about it.

Well, he wants players he says, he sends them computer for free, and if you find his computer useful feel free to write it here.
What better he could wish for.

Last time we had same agreement with him but he run away saying to PJ that instead of testing he will make him video how he predicting and that should be a prove .

This is what PJ concluded about Stefano after 3 months waiting to do test:
http://rouletteplace.com/index.php/topic,692.msg5938.html#msg5938

and the best part of it
“I think he has a highly inflated view of his abilities and intelect and will probably go to the grave with those same beliefs.  We see them jump from buildings flapping their arms every day.. then we see the mess they left behind.”

So good luck to you.
Who knows maybe he really found magic numbers in nature as he claims.

I am passionately waiting 4 years to hear that Stefano finally improved his product.
I can wait another 4 with no problems. 

[forester]

Viper you have no luck. 

You can't be logical with Stefano.

“Viper, where did I ever say I would send you a free computer? If both you and forester have issues with English, read things more slowly. I would never trust either you or forester with especially my latest computers because you would just steal concepts, then forester will claim he thought of it all. Read back, and see what I said was:”

He wants you to compare ff with his computer but refuses to supply his computer.

Let me guess.
He will offer you a video so you can see how he is predicting, of course for someone with no education and technical knowledge that's proper testing and a prove.

Always same story, every time when comes to point where hard prove needs to be shown Stefano runs away.

Only an idiot will take video as a prove of accurate roulette computer predictions.


Viper wasn't I right again when I told you exactly what will happen?
I am around for few years I know how scammers thinking, and what they do.

Here is many roulette players and it's normal they want the best also I am a player and I want the best. I always give chance to competitors but they never can prove anything.

Isn't it sad that he uses VLS just as another site to attack competitors and anyone else who come across his product. Pore Victor he must be having a nightmares reading it all and watching all his friends banned by Stefano.

 “So what's happening with my offer? He isnt responding at all. Then there are idiots like Iboba with empty claims of me being a scammer.”

Oh, so it looks as Iowa is someone new who was scammed? Who cares I stopped counting.

[forester]

Forester, you keep going on how right you are with the dominant diamond issue. It just again shows how you avoid the topic. A 2 pin game where you don`t know which diamond is the dominant. Im done with that, since you apparently don`t wanna discuss it.

Kelly discussion was in jafcos thread. But you just accused me of discredit him.
I asked you few times to point one single thing that I have said wrong in describing what is wrong in his description of 2 pin game.
And you run away.

You seem offended that I post on Steves board, now 2 boards,  it doesn`t mean I stand as a supporter for Steve, since I don`t know how his computer performs in a independent parts hands.

Man you are free man I never care where you make posts. I care because you went on public forums and write that you will not post at my forum any more because I discredit competitors. I do not know if anybody else discredited competitors more then Stefano. Good luck, but it's double face, perhaps you think differently.

And obviously going around and discrediting VB2 without understanding or saying that I did not understand LS is sick.

Even now I was thinking to post with different name.
I think you should remember how much bago (unltil he learned), Stefano Mark were barking at me with all different nick names as soon as I make single post. If I want to make one or 2 posts it ends as a war. THat is why i do not post at other forums. But i think it is sick to ban people on VLS and blame me. I simply have nothing to talk about with Stefano about RC. Every single prove he screwed.

I think laurance will do some tests and, no offense, but his results carrys much more weight than viper and bruces, since most of us knows that a unskilled person is likely to get a negative edge with a device. As I hear it, laurances clocking skills are pretty good which means that steves computer will receive accurate timings and the results will as such show how well it deals with accurate timings.

Well I like Laurance I never have problem with him.
He still owns me a copy of his book because one he says that he posted never arrived.
I never cared, I am self learner. Are you saying that he might be testing scammers RC.
I like to see that.
Computer has to deal and with inaccurate timings that is the point.
I thought I have great timings until I tested it with ms measurements.

As usual these internet wars are never solved in a real life situation. Call Barnett and let him arrange a dealer and a wheel and put Steve on one side and you on the other side and start spinning  away. Let Barnett be the pit boss and record keeper and do 200 spins on a semitilted wheel with the best devices of your own choices.
(Invite spike too and let him  guess his way through the 200 spins)

Well Barnett already has both computers, he wrote what he thinks about mine but I do not believe he will write about Stefano's and you can guess why.

But I am always for.
Except Spike, I am not sure if I would be able to have 44 % advantage. 

Anyway this is strange way of communication for 2 adults.
You are posting on VLS and I post here. It's sick.
I prefer we talk as people or we both just shut up.

Or at least i will, you can keep going, just understand my decision, i do not run away i am always here.   

[viper5]

HEHE!

Yes Forester U were accurate like the FF when u told me that Steve/Stefano will NOT send me his RC to test and istead of that that he will offer me to send me a DVD.

Steves DVD on  its own can show NOTHING!
Steve:
I belivev that u have understood that my knowledje can tell me that a DVD can show nothing...remember that I am NOT a customer of U that don t know anything about VB!
U say in ur site that U need players to coaperate with...and that U are sending them ur RC to make money and to send u the 50% of their profits...
Ok come ON!!! I want to be 1 of ur players Sent me an RC and I will sent U 80% of my winnings(If I will have any!LOLOLOL!)

But If i will lose, U will send me the 100% of the loss! HAHAHHAHAH!!!!

U told me that If i don t care about the DVD ,that U are willing to give me a demostration Via skype with Camera Conference.

Ok If u are affraid that I will sent ur RC to Forester and still ur algorithms or whaterver ,then I am waiting in the Skype to have this demo!

I spoke to U 3 times via Skype...and U DID NOT respond a thing!

I knew from begining that u would NOT send me the RC to test...like forester knew it...I just wanted to see how u would hundle all this.

Till now Ur behavour seems like a scam beheviour! Lets see if u will rise or if u will go deeper in the ground with ur next move!

ps.I don t care to speak with security man to both watch ur Demo from camera as u asked me...I am a very good PROOF on my own.

[securityman]

Hi men

I think it would be unwise to refuse what the man is offering to give.
Lets look at the dvd first,what have you got to fear Viper

go with the flow

Kelly continually drags berlinerbruce into the discussion,as i see it he has done NO testing demo dvd on this forum
chart was given to me Kelly , although i see the confusion as forester gave the impresion that the chart was made by me
ILL stae quite clerly that this chart is not my work and that it was given to me by a friend here at the forum hope that clreas that up ...it was not stolen ,,I DONT TAKE IT LITELY THAT YOU CALL ME THEIF ,,,,,,,,,HOW CAN IT BE your graph when you say i got to thank the auther ,again you brought it up

I demand an APPOLIGY

YES AND POST HERE DOES SEEM CHILDISH and posting on two forums and forester replying to you here

yes mabe you both need to look at yourselves ,,,,,,,,oh come on Kelly reply here

I for one will welcome you ,,,,,,, go on give us a kiss 

Securityman

[forester]

Yes Forester U were accurate like the FF when u told me that Steve/Stefano will NOT send me his RC to test and instead of that that he will offer me to send me a DVD.

Man is a total disaster,
For him that is the test. When I tell him that he has no knowledge and understanding he gets offended.
All he ever did is videos as a prove. First one he published screwed totally, when people highlighted how it is assembled from few videos, he replaced it. 

I was right and when I said it is only a scamming technique he already used few times when he claimed that he is sending to player computers for free. Here is his chance, Viper is a player. He has LS visual prediction jafcos system FFA + another of my secret gadgets, he is in EU if he doesn't qualify who does?

@Securit man, Kelly thinks it is his chart if he found it in some of books.
It is only data anyone could make a chart, it's not worth commenting.

Kelly left this forum because he doesn't like me highlighting bad points in other systems.
So he found place where that doesn't exist like Stefano forum. We all know the real that is.

One is for sure I never blocked people for agreeing with my explanation. If I was wrong somewhere I even give them high respect if they can quote single point to correct me.
On VLS and RF (Stefano's forums) every day someone is banned. 

[viper5]

emails between steve stefano and ME

steve sterfano:

Viper, what's wrong with your head? SHOW ME ONE PLACE WHERE I SAID I'LL SEND YOU A COMPUTER FOR TESTING, AND I'LL SEND YOU $1000 RIGHT NOW. Cant do it? Viper, please dont be as thick headed as forester. You act as if I changed my mind about something, when I never said something in the first place. You will get all the proof you need via live webcam. Until then, so you dont look like a complete idiot later, perhaps you should watch your mouth and watch your attacks against me.
 
I'm sending laurence scott a free computer, but that has nothing to do with things between us.
 
And whats this rubbish saying you contacted me via skype 3 times? Bullshit. Are you lying already? My skype name is below. I will be online almost all of tomorrow (thursday). My local time is at www.genuinewinner.co

ME

I have already made u an invitation in Skype and I talked to U 3 times....(my name is ted deles in skype)

U are in my contact list...but u don t reply!

and when u say to someone that U will make him THE offer and u generally give to players ur RC for free....the only thing that it can be translated is that u would gonna send me TOO the RC.....

anyway...as i told u ur now attidute is a scamer attitude.....

show me what u need to show me and we will see....

I am a fair man...if i was wrong i already told u that I ll be the 1st that i will apologize in public.

[forester]

 
It's already started.

hehe

[securityman]

 sorry but i ahd to laugh when i looked across to your avatar      just on the same line as your told to wathc your mouth

 

well you cant do better than that viper,,,,you got it well strpped in

[viper5]

yes but this thing at my mouth is NOT for NOT to speak...but for NOT to BITE hard!!! HAHAHHAHAHAHHA

[Kelly]

This is a 1 post only, we are not getting any further anyway.




Vibe Jefcos roulette system  It is as a guide for idiots. Well prepared as a document and explained but it is more as for retarded person entertaining himself?

Well, you might be right since jefco's roulette system I wouldn't define as a system at all.
It is only explanation of tilted wheel effect

You kept going on about the dominant diamond, which is not the topic  when discussing a 2 or 3 pin game where you don`t know which diamond is the dominant.

I claim that he plays it same as one pin game and that he even teaches wrong to  select always first diamond when diamond with the most hits needs to be selected.
It means or me or him lacks understanding.

It means that you don`t understand there so far is NOT a dominant diamond.

No matter how positive I want to be I still couldn't figure out what Jafco system really is.
If people could just estimate ball speed there would never exist visual prediction methods, or even roulette computers.

When i searched in the jafco thread i came up with over 5 points where you deliberately either misinterprets or simply refuses to understand his system.  His system is basicly not much different than how many VB players plays. They identify a particular ball revoloution, what you call estimates.  Peace with that, but in the same breath you say your VB systems predicts not estimates which is straight up wrong. I would say there is more estimation in your systems than in traditional VB.

If you wanna keep posters you shouldn`t go on a personal rampage on a ghetto level at least not wit me bacause i got better things to do. No matter how well i should manage to cut jafcos out in a card board for you, you would refuse to give it any credit whatso ever. You had taken your stance even before you read the first line of his system.

Steve Fortes chart that bruce posted, is the basic essentials for the last 4 revoloutions for traditional VB and you call that "donkey". By doing that you classify 99% of all VB players as donkeys. As if you had something better. Why aren`t then just 1% playing classic "estimation" VB and 99% "prediction  forester" ?   

I like discussing roulette with people that knows the stuff and knows how to discuss without getting personal, and thats not your field.  If i have to start every post by reposting  my view because you twist things, it gets very tiresome.

We are never gonna have a productive conversation on Roulette, THATS why i don`t post here any more, NOT because you bash Jafco, because there really aren`t any you can accept as being able to play a proper game.  When you go into "black box" mode you post some really bad english nonsense and back it up with some numbers that don`t make any sense when we don`t know exactly what you talk about. So we end up all being amateurs and idiots in your mind.

[viper5]

Kelly it so SO NICE to see u posting here again!

U are a well respected VB player...U are mostly WELCOME! there are NOT many VB players left in the world and it is a shame NOT to have U here.

I agree with some things that U say about ur diferences with forester about Jafco s system...

I have said a lot of times that Jafco s VB is the most easy and good VB! I like it more ,because it is very accurate in rotor speed changes.But of course we need to make new observation points in some wheels ,becasue the reamaining time is Not in all wheels the same as his VB cards.

The problem with Forester is that he has never tried a lot to find the correct revolution of the ball and thats why he doesn t agree with the advantage of the 2 pin game...
I don t blame him because he is right for a very importand reason!!!
It is really VERY hard ,close to imposible for anyone to be able to spot the 4 or the 3,25 rev the MOST OF THE TIMES in a real professional wheel that we find in a Casino these days...althought in Jafco s wheel I am preety able to spot these 2 speeds of the ball in almost all the spins.

So Forester is NOT wrong if u will see it from his point of view...That it is the correct view in practical
And he just say that the 2 pin game is something that we do NOT aim ,but something that just happens.He is not completely wrong when we look at the modern Casino wheels where the decleration of the ball is Very smooth and it is NOT able to spot the most of the times the correct 4 or 3,25 revs.

Maby U have missed the point that Forester try to explain U... Forester REALLY know how in theory the 2 pin game gives the advantage that jafco s say...
But he tells that it is NOT practical to do IT!!!! And once again I agree with him...
In theory if U will replay the spin and U will find the 3.25 rev U will see that the ball is again in a very advantage position...But can u spot the diference between the 4th and the 3,25 rev of the ball IN A MODERN CASINO WHEEL in order to be able to aim at the dimont that will give u the adbantage...???THIS is what poor and correct Forester is trying to explain U all these years!

As for his VB2 ....U are whrong when u say that it needs more estimation than the traditional VB...

I have read all the thread where he was trying to explain to U what  VB 2  is about....  and from ur questions and answers ,IT IS OBVIOUS that U haven t understand what VB 2  is!!!!!!!!!!!And how we predict with it ...and why it gives US the advantage to be close to the correct prediction even if we float by 2-3-4 revs....

Once again it is an honor to have here

It would be nice to stick here with US!!!
when i didn t knew anything about VB U were so nice and U were axplaining anything that U could.
It would be also nice Forester and I ,to try to explain to U VB2...

ps.There is NO need to attack Forester.He really knows what he is talking about!
his only problem is that he can t explain the things sometimes because his 1st language is NOT Enlish...and he is a little staborn sometimes...Hehe!!!

 

[forester]

Vibe Jefcos roulette system  It is as a guide for idiots. Well prepared as a document and explained but it is more as for retarded person entertaining himself? 

Kelly did you ever see books series called such as; windows for idiots, UNIX for idiots, java for idiots, sex for idiots…..
It is a series of books not necessary made for idiots but with detailed and simple explanations. When I said that followed by “Well prepared as a document and explained” retarded person entertaining himself. It gets full meaning of it.

For Viper who started from zero it is good, for me I couldn't see anything new as the system was presented by Jafco or by your explanations. Infect I found it misleading.

You are the one who promoted it with words as …with Jafco's system you can play 2 or 3 pin game. I am trying to explain to you and to anybody else that 2 or 3 pin play has nothing to do with Jafco system since he doesn't have a single thing in his system to trigger it.

He is only explaining what will happen if the ball hits other diamond and if rotor is slow. He even explains it poorly, he points and makes videos only when ball makes 3.25 rotations instead of 4. he doesn't explain that the ball can make 4.25 which is much closer to 4 and that result will be wrong. He believes you have to use first of 2 pins, and it is not truth. That is what I was explaining. If it is wrong then it is wrong, obviously he couldn't see whole picture of 2 pin game. If you can prove to me that it is not wrong I will accept it. That's all I am asking from you before then you claim I just discredit Jafco's stem without reason.


You said he is first one to explain it, I showed you video where it was explained earlier, but you claimed that you couldn't understand. It's not important, who explained it first or how explains it more understandable.

Point is that if it was explained on video where completely different system is used it means that 2 pin game applies to every VB system and it has nothing to do with Jafco's approach. If it applies to any VB; it is not Jafco's system that creates it but obviously it is an effect on tilted wheel when the rotor is at particular speed range. I asked you or anyone else to point singe thing from Jafco's system how he exactly plays 2 pin and you couldn't. Take any other VB approach and it would be same.

2 pin game has nothing to do with him estimating 4th rev, or using always first pin.
Who wanted to understand he will, I explained that if you use first or second pin you still have a 2 pin game and you have had problem understanding it. If you think I am wrong then lets go step by step and I will explain in detail every single sentence I wrote.

***Well, you might be right since jefco's roulette system I wouldn't define as a system at all. It is only explanation of tilted wheel effect

You kept going on about the dominant diamond, which is not the topic  when discussing a 2 or 3 pin game where you don`t know which diamond is the dominant.***

Point is that Jafco claims in his document; from 2 diamonds you have to use always the first one to play 2 pin game. It is not the truth. You can use second one and achieve same. If you do not understand my previous explanation then ask I will explain it again. If second diamond has more hits then first I suggest to people to use it instead of first and I explained by how much advantage will increase.

***I claim that he plays it same as one pin game and that he even teaches wrong to  select always first diamond when diamond with the most hits needs to be selected.
It means or me or him lacks understanding.

It means that you don't understand there so far is NOT a dominant diamond.**

Kelly of 2 diamonds (2 pins) not always they get same hits. More often is that one gets more. If it happens that second one getting more hits, with jafco suggestion to still use first one the player is worst of.

***No matter how positive I want to be I still couldn't figure out what Jafco system really is.
If people could just estimate ball speed there would never exist visual prediction methods, or even roulette computers.

When i searched in the jafco thread i came up with over 5 points where you deliberately either misinterprets or simply refuses to understand his system.  His system is basicly not much different than how many VB players plays. They identify a particular ball revoloution, what you call estimates.  Peace with that, but in the same breath you say your VB systems predicts not estimates which is straight up wrong. I would say there is more estimation in your systems than in traditional VB.***

“His system is basicly not much different than how many VB players plays.”

Well yes you are right, his system is nothing more then that. If so, it is represented wrongly. Jafco represents it as unique 4th dimension of roulette play. You were representing it as system that can play 2 or 3 pins. So when I got the system and found out that it is only estimate when ball is about 4 rotations before drop than adjust how much rotor will move in remaining 4 rotations, of course I got disappointed. It's basic of basics.
 
Kelly, with VB2 what Jafco has to estimates within one rev of accuracy I can comfortably do within 5. Sure and VB2 has its own problems and with difference to anyone else I also write about it, because I believe it is important to understand not only what system can do but also what it can't do. Same as I was finding week points in any system I did it for VB2 even more precisely.
 

If you wanna keep posters you shouldn`t go on a personal rampage on a ghetto level at least not wit me bacause i got better things to do. No matter how well i should manage to cut jafcos out in a card board for you, you would refuse to give it any credit whatso ever. You had taken your stance even before you read the first line of his system.

Kelly, I was very curious when you told me Jafco has a system he can play 3 pins.
I said to myself waaaaaoo, this must be something. That is where my disappointment is coming from.

Steve Fortes chart that bruce posted, is the basic essentials for the last 4 revoloutions for traditional VB and you call that "donkey". By doing that you classify 99% of all VB players as donkeys. As if you had something better. Why aren`t then just 1% playing classic "estimation" VB and 99% "prediction  forester" ? 

LOL I did not call it donkey but I said I would not use it. Effectives of chart as that is not a match with the way I play. So if you are racing with a horse you wouldn't switch to race with donkey.
I explain want is additional problem with the chart.
As you could see, after calculation I come to rotor speed 2.4sec. I couldn't find it on chart. (another estimation to find it) 

When I use multiplying factor I never have such problem because adjustment is not in steps as on the chart. Anyway I do not know single player achieved something to use any cards or charts. Maybe you are the one so rise you hand. That chart is only a book explanation helps reader to understand what needs to be done, bu how you going to do it is your creativity. My point was to explain why we do not need to convert pockets to rotor speed then define position in pockets where to shift, if we can straight use pockets, be faster and have more précised adjustments. If you can find it usefull for you, then use it if you can't who cares.

 

I like discussing roulette with people that knows the stuff and knows how to discuss without getting personal, and thats not your field.  If i have to start every post by reposting  my view because you twist things, it gets very tiresome.

We all like discussing roulette, what for you is that I twisted for me is a fact. But somehow I feel same, you twisting my words, and if you read other arguments all over net they feel same way,  obviously you do not see 2 sides and you go even for more, saying at the other forum I couldn't understand LS. I am not sure what that would be twisting or something else.

We are never gonna have a productive conversation on Roulette, THATS why i don`t post here any more, NOT because you bash Jafco, because there really aren`t any you can accept as being able to play a proper game. 

That's not what you've stated at Stefano's forum.
You said you will support every forum except foresters because he discredits all competitors. Well done Kelly. It was as Nobel's price for Stefano.
I assume you did not understand full meaning of what you've said and where. And now you claim something else as a reason.

Any game is proper game, I accept Jafcos, I never said it's a scam, I said it is  misrepresented and it has some points wrong and badly explained.

I tell you something, from all paper systems sold on net that I come across in past few years, I found BOB GORDONS system the most valuable one. Part one is a rubbish, but part 2 has the best explanations on everything that matters, you can see it is done by player not just someone who wants to sell. And yes, 2 pin game applies on his system as well. 

When you go into "black box" mode you post some really bad english nonsense and back it up with some numbers that don`t make any sense when we don`t know exactly what you talk about. So we end up all being amateurs and idiots in your mind.

HEHEH, I always know that it was your problem with me.
Kelly cant accept to ask, and if he has to ask again it is disaster. I never see it that way, you could always put blame on me and say your English sucks.
If you do not understand and can not follow calculation you should ask. When I write calculations I try to do it in step by step so someone who wants to follow it, he can do it easier and to  see how it is done.
If I do not understand what do you mean I will ask you 10 times.
It doesn't mean that I am an idiot.
Yes Kelly I understand not everyone can go through things as I do, especially if it is something I am explaining. But that really doesn't make me wrong, or it doesn't give you right to blame me for something that you couldn't follow or were afraid to ask.
With what you did you made it much worst. Some people asked me to explain something 10 times, I never consider them idiots, but when I found some of your posts around without no reason to write it, what else I could think.
I wasn't one who was bashing you, but it was opposite.

Anyway thanks for coming.

[forester]

But of course we need to make new observation points in some wheels ,becasue the reamaining time is Not in all wheels the same as his VB cards.

Exactly and that is another point I was explaining.
You can't define remaining ball traveling time by ball color and material, as Jafco's cards are made.
No serious and skilled player will ever use them, and that is why I said cards are for retarded  to sit at home and practice until they find better way by themselves because nobody else explained them anything else.

The problem with Forester is that he has never tried a lot to find the correct revolution of the ball and thats why he doesn t agree with the advantage of the 2 pin game...

Viper Forester found right ball revolutions more then you will ever see.
Even when I play VB2.



Not sure when I did not agree with advantage of 2 pin game and since when 2 pin has anything to do with finding right ball revolution? VB2 doesn't find right ball rev but  still takes advantage of 2 pins.
I only understand whole picture and do not present only one side of it as some others do.

4 rev to the end you win ,
3 .25 you win
but he never explained that 4.25 hits same diamond as 3.25 and it is much close with ball speed to targeted 4 then what it would be ball that hits  after 3.25 rotations.

I don t blame him because he is right for a very importand reason!!!
It is really VERY hard ,close to imposible for anyone to be able to spot the 4 or the 3,25 rev the MOST OF THE TIMES in a real professional wheel that we find in a Casino these days...althought in Jafco s wheel I am preety able to spot these 2 speeds of the ball in almost all the spins. 

Man, if that is what Jafco told you it is embarrassing. I think after so much communication you still didn't understand him.
 
I did not see in his document or in approach that he is trying to distinguish in between 4 and 3.25 rotations.

Why would he, if there is no reason for that?

 There may be a reason to find difference in between 4 and 4.25 since it produces wrong result, but to find such difference hmmmmm.

Viper how many times I told you that you do not understand 2 pin game?