Phisics takes no "Chance" into account

[personalvoid]

Greetings to all,

a few days ago i was sorting out what of the various public VB techniques could be well suited for my style and abilities.

after i lost 20$ with martingale (in which i never believed in first place, but hoped for a wining streak so long to actually make some few chips in order to play VB, but eventually failed with 6 or 7 bad hit on a 50% winning prob with the online ZERO house advantage at betvoyager), started immediately reading posts by kelly and his take on VB, plus his evergreen pictures of some German ballistic prediction book .

I started drawing several triangles of ball, ball after 4th revolution and outcome (like the ones inside the pic with Su and Sg)
i tried to focus on patterns, but i couldn't get a definite pattern there, and that was because of:
1. bad scatter
2. bad rotor speed
3. bad wheel speed
4. wrong diamond hit (and consequent bad scatter)
5. and not least, human error

so i immediately dumped the whole practice, but it had taught me something ofcourse, taking some reference that will end up building some consistent result. Thanks Kelly for that.

In the search for something more functional, and by that i mean something that can produce quite constant data in order to be used to do some statistics, or even know if i am doing good or bad,  i read Forester reply to a user which was starting VB and did his bets on a whole quarter of wheel based on the start position of the ball when the dealer spun it.

in that reply, forester was describing the whole VB work as it was full with errors.
He said that you can take into account and focus on ball speed, but then you'll lose rotor speed variations, and you might mess it up
The opposite is true, and you'll end up not knowing which revolution is good for the ball to be.

He suggested to remove one variable, the ball, and focusing on rotor... then he went on but that was the main thing, to loose focus on one variable...

that is what his VB2 system is all about, after reviewing the expression, he put rotor speed and ball deceleration inside the equation, and the number you get is related to that particular rotor revolution.

I have found my system, and in the last 72 spins test, by betting 5 numbers i got 1/4.2 hit rate, with 5 betting you need better than 1/6 so that's a sign of goodness but still i didn't do NOTHING of what i call ADVANCED, and which i will be describing and asking questions here below:

1. to both Kelly system and Forester one, wouldn't be better to mark out the ball drop point instead of the outcome and then add the scatter accordingly? so you will sooner find if prediction is good without the error of the scatter, i think that thing is done brillantly by the FFA computer, by finding the drop zone, not the actual prediction, which my vary on scatter.

2. to Forester this time: your system basically states that ball and rotor are syncronized at some time when applying the time in the function (t). So, i thought of a way to predict which diamond will be hit  on the final spin, and this could be accomplished by noting the position of the ball in the track (the closest diamond) when you make the prediction, and the final diamond hit.
if the wheel is tilted, we clearly have a larger section of the wheel in which if the ball is inside when we read our prediction we can be sure the ball will hit our DD. Then we can filter out bad spins, as spins that hit a different diamond. And this can be done with almost no eye stress during our normal prediction time.

3. to Forester again: i don't find why your system couldn't be applied if the wheel is not tilted... maybe for the reason i explained before? for example in a wheel which is not tilted  the section of the wheel in which happens the prediction that leads to one of the diamonds is too small to estimate correctly? so any diamond could be hit thus prediction might be good but scatter will be random?

4. to Forester again: i found out that the vb2 is good for rotor speeds actually varying slightly, it has some sort of accuracy (if mentally timing the ball ofcourse) of +-0.15 seconds, so you have a good results with a large span of rotor speeds,... i thought that one might prepare himself before with like 3 variations of the formula and mentally memorize different timings in order to adapt if dealer change his rotor speeds. good point?

5. Dealer change: how do we disguise the fact that we are predicting during dealer change? what are the betting strategies in these situations?

6. if we are able to predict which diamond is hit for each spin, wouldn't it be wise to accumulate scatter data JUST for that particular diamond?

7. Do you think that with time is convenient to reduce sector betting size or statistically a fixed number is better? if not, do you adjust it with rotor speed? and if rotor speed is faster than normal, do you move the bet with some sort of calculation or you just guess what more scatter will be by experience? because i do that alot, i feel i don't have much time to place the bets if i do the calc....

but of course i only play online casino right now, i'll try soon on a live casino, buddy told me betting time are more tolerant there...

Oh, if some of you find out in my post i am unveiling something, feel free to edit as you like

thank you so much for reading this long,

Semi Engineer V.

[forester]

Not exactly like that.
With VB2 you predict lets say in 5,6,7,8  and 9th ball revolution same as you predict in any of particular one by using classic VB. But you still have to make adjustments for rotor changes. For example you may target on particular ball rev. to read reference number. Let's say 7.  What if you are wrong by 2 rotations? Normally you would be wrong by time length of 2 rotations times rotor speed in pockets per sec. If 2 rotations in total were 1.5 sec and rotor speed was 12 p/s you would be wrong by 18 pockets. VB2 will reduce 18 pockets close to zero pockets error. But you still have to make adjustments if the rotor speed is different.

1. to both Kelly system and Forester one, wouldn't be better to mark out the ball drop point instead of the outcome and then add the scatter accordingly? so you will sooner find if prediction is good without the error of the scatter, i think that thing is done brillantly by the FFA computer, by finding the drop zone, not the actual prediction, which my vary on scatter.

Of course it would be better. It is something I start promoting  years ago and many people start accepting it as a better way.

2. to Forester this time: your system basically states that ball and rotor are syncronized at some time when applying the time in the function (t). So, i thought of a way to predict which diamond will be hit  on the final spin, and this could be accomplished by noting the position of the ball in the track (the closest diamond) when you make the prediction, and the final diamond hit.
if the wheel is tilted, we clearly have a larger section of the wheel in which if the ball is inside when we read our prediction we can be sure the ball will hit our DD. Then we can filter out bad spins, as spins that hit a different diamond. And this can be done with almost no eye stress during our normal prediction time.

Possible but almost impassable. If I am using a timer for VB2 then in particular moment after the time elapses I read the number but if I notice and ball position in relationship to the wheel frame at that moment and learn how it relates to diamond hits perhaps I can do it. The problem is that changes are to small and hard to notice, also it would be to much data in my head. Without timer it wouldn't be possible since deviation in reference time without timer would be greater then what we can notice on the wheel.

3. to Forester again: i don't find why your system couldn't be applied if the wheel is not tilted... maybe for the reason i explained before? for example in a wheel which is not tilted  the section of the wheel in which happens the prediction that leads to one of the diamonds is too small to estimate correctly? so any diamond could be hit thus prediction might be good but scatter will be random?

Tilt wheel groups different ball speeds on one diamond which we call dominant diamond.
On leveled wheel everything is different, and as you said what we would notice is far too small to make any adjustments. Spotting difference in between 2 ball revolutions is only small, that difference on leveled wheel represents change of 37 pockets. The only one VB that can have a chance on leveled wheel is E2. The theory is explained on forum. It observes the bal change in 4.5 sec. (much longer time), then even that difference has to be multiplied by 3. (it means if we use 1.5 secref. time for every pocket difference we would have to multiply by 9)

4. to Forester again: i found out that the vb2 is good for rotor speeds actually varying slightly, it has some sort of accuracy (if mentally timing the ball ofcourse) of +-0.15 seconds, so you have a good results with a large span of rotor speeds,... i thought that one might prepare himself before with like 3 variations of the formula and mentally memorize different timings in order to adapt if dealer change his rotor speeds. good point? 

VB2 I good and I play it a lot. It handles rotor changes but it doesn't like fast rotor and it doesn't like huge rotor changes. For example the dealer spins the ball within 4-5 sec per rotation there is no problem. If from that speed ranges, he suddenly spins 2.5 sec per rotation then there is a problem.

5. Dealer change: how do we disguise the fact that we are predicting during dealer change? what are the betting strategies in these situations?

When dealer changes nothing changes as long as he spins the rotor with reasonably same speed. He can spin the ball much harder but who cares, after some time that ball will slow down to be same as when previous dealer was spinning. It matter only if you play basic dealer signature (DS).
Some time ago I made a small explanation about DS referring to teaching of Stefano's Genuine Winner document.
http://www.myrulet.com/index.php/similar-roulette-systems.html

6. if we are able to predict which diamond is hit for each spin, wouldn't it be wise to accumulate scatter data JUST for that particular diamond?

What is the point? If the wheel is leveled you would have no difference at which diamond the ball hits. If the wheel is tilted we are targeting particular diamond and we want ball scatter from that diamond. While roulette computer can have idea of ball position hits on the diamond for VB would be hard. Good RC can also predict when the ball will not hit DD but where it will hit instead it will be close to imposable to predict. We may have DD at 12 o'clock, and only 40 ms difference in ball speeds may cause ball to hit remaining diamonds. If we are trying to use 40 ms difference to distribute it on remaining diamonds, due to imperfections on ball track and the ball itself deviation in ball traveling until it drops is greater then 40 ms gap we have. In simple words, one spin exact 1000 ms ball may make and hit DD, next spin same ball speed may not.

If we are playing a wheel where there are two DD's at less dominant one we may have different ball scatter, it could be more it could be less; it depends on construction of the wheel. If rotor speed matches 9 pockets rotor traveling in time until ball makes ¾ of rotation in last rotation before it drops plus or minus difference in ball scatter form 2 diamonds we can have perfect predictions and on less dominant diamond about 50% of times.

7. Do you think that with time is convenient to reduce sector betting size or statistically a fixed number is better? if not, do you adjust it with rotor speed? and if rotor speed is faster than normal, do you move the bet with some sort of calculation or you just guess what more scatter will be by experience? because i do that alot, i feel i don't have much time to place the bets if i do the calc....

but of course i only play online casino right now, i'll try soon on a live casino, buddy told me betting time are more tolerant there...

I play about 8 pockets and more units in center of it. Statistically on pocket would produce the best advantage, but it also gives huge usability in regular wins.

You have to observe rotor speed changes and adjust according to it.
How I do it, I explained it few times in thread about Jafco.

[personalvoid]

Not exactly like that.
With VB2 you predict lets say in 5,6,7,8  and 9th ball revolution same as you predict in any of particular one by using classic VB. But you still have to make adjustments for rotor changes. For example you may target on particular ball rev. to read reference number. Let's say 7.  What if you are wrong by 2 rotations? Normally you would be wrong by time length of 2 rotations times rotor speed in pockets per sec. If 2 rotations in total were 1.5 sec and rotor speed was 12 p/s you would be wrong by 18 pockets. VB2 will reduce 18 pockets close to zero pockets error. But you still have to make adjustments if the rotor speed is different.

I am not doing it that way, i start counting like on 3rd ball rev, then keep counting as time goes on, i soon see the gaussian forming by focusing on ball and keeping eye on ball position on the wheel... that way i can tell when ball is forward prediction, then after like 2 spins where the prediction is, and then the fallout of the prediction. Is this a good way to go or must i count just once and then wait another rev?
i assume i can put the 8 number bet like you say, but the questio remains: will i do it fast enough for a live casino? some friend told me they allow late betting up until 2/3 ball rev left, if that's the case, i would have like 5/6 ball rev to make the bet, and that is more than enough given that i must learn the wheel by heart, if casino don't have a racetrack...

Possible but almost impassable. If I am using a timer for VB2 then in particular moment after the time elapses I read the number but if I notice and ball position in relationship to the wheel frame at that moment and learn how it relates to diamond hits perhaps I can do it. The problem is that changes are to small and hard to notice, also it would be to much data in my head. Without timer it wouldn't be possible since deviation in reference time without timer would be greater then what we can notice on the wheel.

if someone gets the feel of the coming prediction by keep counting as ball goes on rev after rev, one can actually see which half of the track gets the prediction (i think you can assume it's early half or later half) and by that one can start collecting stat data on DD hit.

Tilt wheel groups different ball speeds on one diamond which we call dominant diamond.
On leveled wheel everything is different, and as you said what we would notice is far too small to make any adjustments. Spotting difference in between 2 ball revolutions is only small, that difference on leveled wheel represents change of 37 pockets. The only one VB that can have a chance on leveled wheel is E2. The theory is explained on forum. It observes the bal change in 4.5 sec. (much longer time), then even that difference has to be multiplied by 3. (it means if we use 1.5 secref. time for every pocket difference we would have to multiply by 9)

i read E2, find it hard to mentally count without errors up to 4.5... will try it though

VB2 I good and I play it a lot. It handles rotor changes but it doesn't like fast rotor and it doesn't like huge rotor changes. For example the dealer spins the ball within 4-5 sec per rotation there is no problem. If from that speed ranges, he suddenly spins 2.5 sec per rotation then there is a problem. 

that's why i was talking about multiple eq. and multiple vRotor...

When dealer changes nothing changes as long as he spins the rotor with reasonably same speed. He can spin the ball much harder but who cares, after some time that ball will slow down to be same as when previous dealer was spinning. It matter only if you play basic dealer signature (DS).
Some time ago I made a small explanation about DS referring to teaching of Stefano's Genuine Winner document.
http://www.myrulet.com/index.php/similar-roulette-systems.html

i know how the system works, was a wrong question, more of a general one though, given the fact that some VB system might relate on how fast the dealer is used to spin the wheel. ofcourse ball deceleration is the same, will only happen in a different time from start...
if ball is spun out and a new one gets in? new deceleration data? might we assume that previous is good and do some mental bets? how to still be at the table without being detected?

What is the point? If the wheel is leveled you would have no difference at which diamond the ball hits. If the wheel is tilted we are targeting particular diamond and we want ball scatter from that diamond. While roulette computer can have idea of ball position hits on the diamond for VB would be hard. Good RC can also predict when the ball will not hit DD but where it will hit instead it will be close to imposable to predict. We may have DD at 12 o'clock, and only 40 ms difference in ball speeds may cause ball to hit remaining diamonds. If we are trying to use 40 ms difference to distribute it on remaining diamonds, due to imperfections on ball track and the ball itself deviation in ball traveling until it drops is greater then 40 ms gap we have. In simple words, one spin exact 1000 ms ball may make and hit DD, next spin same ball speed may not.

If we are playing a wheel where there are two DD's at less dominant one we may have different ball scatter, it could be more it could be less; it depends on construction of the wheel. If rotor speed matches 9 pockets rotor traveling in time until ball makes ¾ of rotation in last rotation before it drops plus or minus difference in ball scatter form 2 diamonds we can have perfect predictions and on less dominant diamond about 50% of times.

i meant collecting scatter for the DD hit, and leaving out the rest... btw if a tilted wheel with dd is found, and ball is light, "maybe" air is less dense, should we play it even if we have like 1/2-3/4 wheel scatter?

I play about 8 pockets and more units in center of it. Statistically on pocket would produce the best advantage, but it also gives huge usability in regular wins.

as i said, hope to be fast enough, but if dealer is disturbed, i think one should pass on to distribute betting size, and just go with same betting...

You have to observe rotor speed changes and adjust according to it.
How I do it, I explained it few times in thread about Jafco.

i'll read that, and thanks alot for bothering to answer this long and pheraps annoying topic for an exp. player

void out

[forester]

i read E2, find it hard to mentally count without errors up to 4.5... will try it though

You can't  count accurate enough for E2, everything multiplies by 3.

I am not sure how do you play.
You start counting and counting and?
How, when , when start when stop , what then?

[personalvoid]

yes, i count endlessly

if you state in your system is no such continuous counting, then my variation might add something to it, i hope

i make the equation you gave in .doc file on your site with all stats about the ball deceleration at some ball rev, then i clock the wheel, when i got pretty much standard results (like 4.1, 4.0,3,9) i average that and make 4.0 s per rev.
ten i do 3 equations, one for faster rotor and one for lower rotor speed (lets say 3.5 and 5 seconds) i got 3 numbers, on faster rotor speed the number will be higher, on slower rotor speed the number will be lower.

then i make 3 tunes that match these three times, so i can count them in my head.

k, now the system:

1. focus on wheel for 2-3 ball revolution, and select the right tune for that spin
2. start counting at any time when ball passes any particular diamond.
3. when you finish counting the tune, start over but keep an eye on where the ball was on the wheel.
3. then you finish the second tune, start over again, but keep an eye on where the ball was on the wheel (you get two positions)
... repeat until the positions you get comes closer each other, and for a couple of times after the tune are like the same number on wheel.
4. after that if you keep counting you'll see that subsequent numbers will be further away and miss syncronization.

that's my prediction, if outcome is different, change offset at start accordingly.

note that error on counting might occour, but since prediction usually happens on the 5-6 counting, you have a pretty good idea of number distribution, and might filter out bad numbers... actually if you mess up you'll notice because for example:

1st reading is a number
2nd reading is another number 8 pockets away
3rd number is another number 4 pockets away from the 2nd
4th number is anothe.... 2 pockets away
5th number is prediction
6 number is prediction
7th number is coming out prediction zone...

and so forth

if you messed up on the 3rd number, you might have the distance between the 2nd and third to be actually LARGER than distance in pockets betweek 1st and 2nd... so you don't bet because you visually have a proof that you made a timing error.

that's my take at your vb2 system.

[forester]

You may get something but with if you use VB2 properly, on each of your counting you should get same reference number (close). When you get that you know that your counting time is correct. 

[personalvoid]

i just keep counting because if i only start from my starting observation point and start counting there, if i get a number, while i read it the ball might have passed by the reference point again, and i miss a spin every time count...