Has anyone bought Jafco's system?

[forester]

I do not attack him, I am only commenting system.

If you think I explained  something wrong then tell me.

[viper5]

ok i really want to know something......

have u and kelly and jefco and snow man play all togeather in a weel.....and see who is the most accurate?

couse noone can say things that tells that he is the best if he haven see the others.....

[lucky_strike]

Viper5
I belive Kelly is one of the very best.
You should be happy if Kelly and Forester reply and try to help you.

Regarding roulette computer so do i only hear good things about FFA and i can not say i hear the same about other roulette computers.

If you are here to learn then stop argue and ask questions about VB.
It is not important ho is the best of the best but they are here.

Cheers Lucky Strike

[viper5]

sorry LS but i don t think that anyone can learn VB by asking questions....
its a teqnique!

u must 1st find which is the best and the practice a lot!

i don t want to practice with the wrong teqnique and make my eyes hurt for nothing

[jaybird21]

viper are you here to try to better your skills and learn from real vb players or just to start shit and try and prove people wrong. we are here to try and help and better each other skills. not to fight and waste time. if you want to become a good player i would change my ways and learn how to talk to people. this is a forum of friends.

[viper5]

u fight here on ur own...lol
it didn t deded me to come and do that.
i don t have any reason to make fights with anyone!

i just started learning VB and i wanted to find the most accurate system in order to bye it....
because with questions u can t learn VB
its like someone don t know how to do sex and he asks....
if u don t have the partener u will never know.....

thats all

i am just sad that in here all of the pros say that the other pros aren t good enough!

when someone say "rubish" the system of an other one i think this is attack....

exept if in greece we have a diferent way to understand things

[Kelly]

Viper you say you just started learning VB. Who/what is your guide/mentor ? If you are just scimming the boards for info to learn it, you will have a hard time ahead.

There is nothing wrong in attacking a large drop zone the way Jafco does. Obviously one would get better results with a more precise prediction and predicting the correct strike diamond, thats the way i try to do it, but if you can`t do it that way, Jafcos overlap soloution is the next best thing. He recommends using cards, but hey, after a week of training you won`t be looking at any cards anymore.  But its an allright way for the beginner.

Accuracy beats everything, but sometimes we need to short cut a wheel, simply because we ain`t good enough. Jafcos overlap soloution is fine and will work under some conditions.   

I even do it myself, more or less the same way, when i can`t get a feel for predicting the correct diamond but must settle for 2 pins as the best. I don`t know why forester keeps bashing the teckniqe because we are only humans, not computers, and a 75% drop zone IS a hard nut to crack for all VB players. Most players disses wheels with 3 or 4 pin zones.

But you are correct viper, the only way to learn VB is to get down and dirty and start practising on some wheels. If you do it on dvd, you got the possibility to do them several times. Start by taking 2 - 3 spins and run them until you get your prediction in the same round EVERY TIME, preferbly the same number. Then add another 2 - 3 spins and run them until you puke. Get a feel for the prediction round, you might even skip predicting numbers but go for predicting strike diamonds exactly say 4 revoloutions before they strike the diamond.

By the way thanks for the flowers, but im not the best. I have seen a few whizz kids, and nothing beats a boy who has the feel in his veins. 

[viper5]

KELLY
thanks for the reply u are a very nice man!polite and accurate!

this month i will get jefco system....
i will practice it to death!!!!

i will post the resaults

[forester]

I said "rubbish" to Yous comment.

I don`t know why forester keeps bashing the teckniqe

Kelly I already asked but nobody answered.

So tell me which extra technique he is using for 2 pin game?

From what I have read, NONE.

And tell me how can his card for 4 rotations to the end, with defined ball material, without defined ball diameter be in any way accurate.

If it works on his wheel where ball deceleration is extremely high, there is no chance to be accurate on most common wheels in casino. Also ball small in diameter will not travel in same time last 4 revolutions as ball with large diameter. If ball for those 4 rotations goes let say one sec longer none of data from card will match. And that is what will always happen. So player simply can not rely on cards. I can understand “we are only humans” but this has nothing to do with including irrelevant factors, still missing some and not including the most important one. 

Since, he only estimates particular rotation, I can understand that he limit himself to have predication only 2,3,or 4 rotations before then ball drops. On his wheel last 4 rotations take about 6-6.5 sec before then ball drops. So imagine how much time he has if he predicts even later, 2 or 3 rotations before then ball drops. It is useless do design cards for that since nobody will use it.

[Kelly]

We can call it teckniqe or analysis, whatever. Its a calculation of where  the profitablest  place to read the prognosis when you can expect a large drop zone. It will work on all kind of wheels, but will of course be weakened as the wheels get more diffycult.

The cards are made for the training wheel that he is using, obviously they probably needs adjusting on wheels with a different scatter and decelleration, but i think most people won`t use the cards at all when they get more experienced, but you have to remember that someone who is just starting out, is NOT experienced. So the card is an okay reminder when one is standing in front of the kitchen table, TV or computer to the left,  trying to predict the numbers and also place them on the homemade felt placed on the table before a possible NMB. (Preparing to learn sector betting without the dealers help)

But i do understand why he is using an easy wheel for learning. If he had used a semi tiltet Cammegh, no beginner would ever be able to even understand what VB was all about because there would be way too many spins that came out different than what they were supposed to.

If i were him, i would have made a Part 1 and a Part 2 in the same package where part 2 was a Cammegh and where he started a brand new session, taking it spin by spin telling the audience how he was building up the most profitable reading spot as the spins developed. Basicly, as you would do it when you entered a total unknown casino and noticed that you had a wheel where 1 diamond practicly got no hits at all, and you at firrst categorized it as a 3 pin table, maybe upgrading it to a 2.5 pin table because 1 of the pins maybe only got 10% of strikes and the remaining 90% were on 2 other pins.  That would be a typical casino session. 

[forester]

We can call it teckniqe or analysis, whatever. Its a calculation of where  the profitablest  place to read the prognosis when you can expect a large drop zone. It will work on all kind of wheels, but will of course be weakened as the wheels get more diffycult.

OK, I asked simple question. How does he play it differently then one pin game?
Still no answer.

I claim that he plays it same as one pin game and that he even teaches wrong to  select always first diamond when diamond with the most hits needs to be selected.
It means or me or him lacks understanding.

If we select most dominant diamond even if it is second one we lose nothing but we gain because we get more spot on hits. And overlapping is still happening.
So we may have 60 % spot on and 40% close because of overlapping. By his explanation he says that it is better to have 40% spot on and 60 % from overlapping. Overlapping is a fact nothing to do with his system since he doesn't define any technique to separate straight hits, also it will happen regardless which diamond we select.

The cards are made for the training wheel that he is using, obviously they probably needs adjusting on wheels with a different scatter and decelleration, but i think most people won`t use the cards at all when they get more experienced, but you have to remember that someone who is just starting out, is NOT experienced. So the card is an okay reminder when one is standing in front of the kitchen table, TV or computer to the left,  trying to predict the numbers and also place them on the homemade felt placed on the table before a possible NMB. (Preparing to learn sector betting without the dealers help)

I understand that, and that is what I said on the start. It is good only for slow people so they can entertain themselves, there is not much use of it in real casino, simply because results will not match.

But i do understand why he is using an easy wheel for learning. If he had used a semi tiltet Cammegh, no beginner would ever be able to even understand what VB was all about because there would be way too many spins that came out different than what they were supposed to.

LOL , are you joking, you want to tell me that with estimated ball speed where difference in between rotations is only 120 ms as on Cammegh he can play 2-3 pins almost leveled wheel.
He can't play even one pin.
Get real.

What makes me concern is your misunderstanding. Or excuse me if I am wrong. Jefco said his system can handle 1,2,3 pins game and you accept it as his system feature, when it has nothing to do with his system. You tell me which VB doesn't do it?
Is VB which more precisely defines particular revolution is in some way disadvantaged if compared to someone who only estimating it as jefco.

[Kelly]

What i like about it, is that no one else, including you, teaches how to get round a 3 pin drop zone in a profitable way.  I think you need to dig a little deeper in the overlap.
 I know your view on traditinal VB, remember Jafcos system does not predict any different than laurances or Kaisans system, so im not gonna start a fight about that.  I know what traditional VB can do, what you think can`t be done is up to you and i have given up explaining things again and again, so lets just leave it at that.  Sometimes you too stubborn to see past an obstacle you have decided is a main fault to something.

As for the card thing, i can accept that people need a guide for it in the beginning, aparrentley you can`t.  Well, what the hell, calling a beginner slow is not that sympathetic. We all have to learn from some point.

End of story on my behalf.

[forester]

Kelly I really start to worry about your understanding.
What Jefco calls 3 pin game is not what you say” teaches how to get round a 3 pin drop zone in a profitable way”

Infect ,the name 3 pin is misleading, It is again 2 pin but opposite diamonds.
Same as for 2 pin game with particular rotor speed, if the ball makes 3 rotations or 2.25 result will be close.

Same applies to faster rotor, if ball makes 3 rotations or 2.5 results will be close.
So it is not 3 dominant pins  (diamonds) as you were thinking, but it is again 2 but on oposite sides.

And again, it is nothing to do with his system.
There is nothing to master with it, it's simple, it's happening or not.

Since Jefco explains that in particular situations hits on 2 opposite pins may produce similar results, what about pin in middle. It would be logical that from 3 dominant pins middle one gets most of hits. And guess what? It opuses results from other 2 pins. Ouch.

Calling it 3 pin game is misleading. First time you start talking about it I thought it is something worth looking.

But hey, if someone wants to learn principles of tilted wheel from staarting point of “Tabula Rasa” then YES, Jefco made nice explanation. Very nice in steps!

But soon ,you will look to find tilted wheel prediction system that can identify particular ball revolution, with better accuracy then just estimating it.
And go for something more advanced then looking in to cards that are made only for fast decelerating wheel.

[Yous]

Viper, buying just one system doesnt help you, and it doesnt even matter who's you buy, but all it matters is how you use it and how good you are at using it. Practise and Practise, these guys have been in here for ages and they have almost each of them ended up making their own system , hopefully you will to, before buying any systems i susggest you do as much research as possible, look at free systems, practise, try to come up with your own methods, read about VB masters, and the list goes on... I wish you the best of luck and i remember when i was in a situation like you =). good luck.

Forester, the secrets about jafco's system are ofcourse going to be confidential bro. When he sold me his system, his only polite request was confidentiality. He trusted me, so i really cant break his trust. But you have every right of your opinion. =)

Peace out.

[viper5]

@yours

that exactly what i said...that i need a lot of practice(as any new)but i must practice to a system that is correct....couse i don t wan t o make the predictions and the right predicted number to be exactly in the opositte side of the weel every time,couse the system was wrong....

i have the apetite to dizzy my eyes and my brain all day ,in order to find my tune and flow....but i must do it with the right way ....

@kelly
even from the talking u do with forester i am strarting  learning things about VB
thanks
and as always u are a gentelman

@forester
i am learning things from u too
thanks

i am just a little sad,couse the right thing would be to be just 1 way(method.system)to predict the number.

[Yous]

vIPER good exists because evil is there, light exists because darkness is there, there is always a debate, every 1 has different point of views and that is why we have such forums, first of all you should read what visual ballistic is about, and then you research into people offering visual ballistics, watch their videos, and then you do a lil bit of your research and im sure you will be happy with all that. im sure you can buy laurence, jafco and forester VB2, in less then the price of a ffa

[forester]

im sure you can buy laurence, jafco and forester VB2, in less then the price of a ffa

LOL i shouldnt be in that group, my vb is for free, but as i said it at start, it will be suprise if one of 100 people can find use of it ,since they wil not understand it.


Until now I did not find single person that plays same way VB, but similar.

And I am the worst one because I play completely different then anybody else. 

***Forester, the secrets about jafco's system are ofcourse going to be confidential bro. When he sold me his system, his only polite request was confidentiality.

Is that so? I assume that he sold system and to the others as confidential or they missing something important.

Yous, it is not my opinion it is fact that is happening on tilted wheel.
It was there before me, Kelly , Laurance or anybody else. It has nothing to do with anybodies system including Jefco's. It is a false claim that his system does it, if it applies to any system.
 
I ask few times, tell me what I said or explained wrong.
I would like if viper buys it and then start putting this all together, only then he wil understand.

Let me format so called 3 pin game for you.

If we have 3 dominant diamonds A,B,C, and D one that most likely will never be involved.
We can expect something as this
A 20% hits,
B 50% hits
C 20% hits
D 10% hits.

If I play this I would straight go for B, if I use FF no problem at all, if I use my VB2
I will get advantage on B diamond, and if rotor is slow I will get something on  A and on C as well, because VB2 is the only system that increases prediction based on ball speed. So if ball is stronger and it passes point B already it will be predicted by 5-6 extra pockets more. Such ball because is faster will come in shorter time to point B, (lets say 4 pockets) so when it comes to pin C  will be close to proper prediction. Same applies if ball was going for pin A.

In Jefcos case, (3 pin game) he will go for one of pins A or C. If he goes for A and ball hits A he has good prediction, but he has also good enough prediction if rotor is fast and the ball hits C pin.
But he has huge mistakes if the ball goes for pin B which will have the most hits.
Someone may say, still it isn't bad, but there is more....

[Kelly]

It can be boiled down to that we don`t want the bet to be stranded if the ball misses the main pin. If the ball passes the target pin that would have given a perfect hit, your bet is 100% lost unless you can make the ball bounce backwards, because your betting area will be on its way, away from the ball. 

You might wanna consider what he writes about wheel speed and 3 pin games.

You keep saying that it is not his system but something that happens in the wheel. Correct, but he has made people aware of that in writing, you didn`t. Laurance has to some extend, but the trouble there is that laurance is extremely intelligent and has explained it in a way that for him seems logical and straight forward where in fact, you really need to know what is going on in the wheel before you understand what he is saying.

Personally i don`t play the 3 pin wheels as Jafco would, i wouldn`t be able to tell you which would be my aiming pin before i have analysed the tracking. A could be the main pin if the bounce was stronger than it was on B because that would show up as a main area some 6 - 12 pockets after B pin, and as such also receive hits from the B pin. In such a case the bounce would probably be down to a minimum on the C pin and would add hits to the main area too. Or it could be something else. I wouldn`t be too concerned which pin the aim was at, because other factors would add hits to the main area. But basicly, i wouldn`t want my bet placed BEHIND the ball when it drops, because then the bet is permanently lost. It should be in a suitable position in front of the ball as the ball comes down  from the rim and diamond and bounces forward towards the bet numbers.

 

[Kelly]

PS: Viper, if you go to my blog and go to the Steve Forte post, you will find a picture of a table that Steve Forte made that explains pretty well why there are different "clocking keys" (reading pints) for different wheel speeds.

[Yous]

Forester, i totally agree with you that it happens on tilted wheels, but as i said there are always 2 sides to the coin. Your opinion and analysis might well be true, but all im going to say is that i always have a good time playing with your ffz, i love it. The same goes for his VB, its fun has a different approach to the game, and in my case that worked as well. I just want to mention 1 more point that the house has 2.7% edge, you onli need to be slightly accurate to beat them, some 1 said somethning bout missing the pin and there fore going far away from your prediction, but im pretty sure your gonna be in the same half of the wheel and any DECENT AND PROFESSIONAL player will tell you that, it is good enough. =), come on guy be cool

Live life, fuck tight. =)

Yous.

[forester]

You keep saying that it is not his system but something that happens in the wheel. Correct, but he has made people aware of that in writing, you didn`t. Laurance has to some extend, but the trouble there is that laurance is extremely intelligent and has explained it in a way that for him seems logical and straight forward where in fact, you really need to know what is going on in the wheel before you understand what he is saying.

Kelly that is not the truth.

Look my video, about tilted wheel, read myVB2 and explanation what is happening  if the ball pass DD and goes for another one (2 pin). The difference is that he explained it wrongly saying that always first diamond needs to be selected when it is irrelevant and diamond with the most hits needs to be selected.
So called 3 Pin game I did not explain and I will never explain because it is complete misunderstanding, as I wrote earlier.

Why not call it 4 pin game, and say well if you miss your targeted diamond the ball will hit another one and your number will be there if rotor is at particular speed. That would mean even if you play leveled wheel you should have advantage when applying his basic approach.  Sue, sure.

He calls it 3 pin games saying the ball will hit 3 pins but ignoring one (which actually on 90% of wheels will get the most hits) and looking results only on 2 pins which he chooses.

**“Personally i don`t play the 3 pin wheels as Jafco would.”

Sure, you do not play because it brings less advantage then if you played middle pin.

*A could be the main pin if the bounce was stronger than it was on B because that would show up as a main area some 6 - 12 pockets after B pin, and as such also receive hits from the B pin. In such a case the bounce would probably be down to a minimum on the C pin.

Lol, how that can be? And anyway even if that is the case did he explain it?
No he did not, so player by selecting to take advantage of 2 opposite pins in most cases will be worst of. Jefco in his material (even calls it 3 pin game) somehow forgot to explain what will happen if the ball hits remaining pin which is in middle. So how it can be 3 pin game?


Yous, yes house advantage is 2.7%, and in theory you need much higher advantage so in real play you can keep it and be able to recognize where the advantage is.
.

[forester]

Pj i copy your text, from post in wrong section. It belongs more in here.

I have attached another video posted by the other contender.  Again, it's not that impressive.  The FF (FFV) beats them all, simply because it achieves excellent results even when the wheel travel distance is constantly changing. Kelly, I would totally agree with you if the video's being presented were 'for educational purposes' but they are not.  They are there to show how efficient his methodology is and therefore to convince people to buy.  As you can see for youself, you don't need anything but your eyes to beat that wheel.

Cheers
PJ
[attachimg=1]


I would agree with it.

Videos are far from reality.

Manuel, did run FFA in “accuracy 1” (earlier prediction since the ball decelerates very fast) to predict his spins and got like 1:6 hit rate.

I consider Jefcos material more as an explanation of tilted wheel theory then as an effective system.

However Yous did meet with Jefco, and he is happy with it.

Considering that Yous is new, that he also bought GW system (disappointed) and that he also owns FFZ I can only accept his claim that Jefco explanations are helpful.


In addition by my opinion publishing any video or material about system which is not average of real capabilities, is an act of deceiving public.

[Kelly]

Well, i think you give him wrong intentions and i find it ridicoulous to match VB skills with computer prediction on a video where the tester also has the opportunity to rewind and optimize. A computer should of course be able to predict better especially on a video. But as Laurance also once stated, he would be happy to take on most computers in a competition in a casino, as long as they would let him bet up to the last 3 or 4 rounds.
After all no one in the roulette seller world has ever published a video with a wheel that matches casino conditions as we see them today. Some haven`t got their own wheels and is not posting any real videos at all  and the rest has only older style wheels.

Im off to London in June and i also might drop by and see Jafco, merely for a player to player chat rather than a buyer/seller chat. Since i already have his system that wouldn`t make any sense either.

[forester]

Truth, so if FF is struggling in real conditions what are the chances of basic VB skill.

Well, i think you give him wrong intentions and i find it ridicoulous to match VB skills with computer prediction on a video where the tester also has the opportunity to rewind and optimize.

You can rewind and optimize as much as you want, the point is that computer can with accuracy of few ms define position of ball during the spin where VB ca not and in Jefco's case he only estimates it.

It is easy to select 5 spins and to show high hit rate on any wheel, but what with remaining spins. How many of them he did not estimate correctly.

But as Laurance also once stated, he would be happy to take on most computers in a competition in a casino, as long as they would let him bet up to the last 3 or 4 rounds.

So what, people can say whatever they want. If he is a miracle to clearly see and notice fast rotor speed on 2 sec / rotation with accuracy of 50 ms needed for his VB to be reasonably effective, I can't argue with that.
I can only say that with such rotor speed I can't even do it with accuracy of 500ms /rotation without any device. Simply because if I use counting as a reference for time I will have deviation of about 100ms/s. For him to achieve 50 ms on 2 sec rotor he would need accuracy in counting of 25 ms.

Stefano did, his wheel was very common and still is. However his predictions did not match hits to rotor which is objective of prediction. In addition he supplies DVD but users couldn't match results in any way, since each time each spin was differently predicted.

The only and the shortest way of system effectiveness are testing it on various video spins. Where everybody can get same result with advantage regardless which part of wheel is targeted as a reference. If system can do that then most likely it will perform and on different conditions. Will it perform on particular conditions nobody can know until the system is applied? That especially applies to leveled wheel approach.

I am thinking to make some spins, and I have no intention to display the best hits and say look I have 1:6 when I know that real result might be far from that.

[Kelly]

With todays scatter, you might very well have a 5 number sector rather than a 1 or 2 pocket main sector as a scatter peak. Sometimes even after 500 trials, there are 2 main areas of 5 numbers with 6 - 7 pockets between. So trying to predict 1 single number as the correct one would be somehow more of an opinion rather than a fact. The VB player would have a secondary analyse that shows the scatter from each diamond, so if he gets a hint of the strike diamond early in the spin he might also have a clue on the scatter. But his bet on a real wheel, would still be an estimate somewhere in the most likely strike distance from the strike diamond. It would only in rare cases be a spot on 1 single number with a high strike rate.

Laurance don`t play 2.0 sec wheels, if i remember correct his favourits are between 2.5 and 3.0 but thats mostly due to the conditions where he plays, its not something he searches for.

I haven`t done any accuracy tests on Stefanos videos, strike number versus outcome number versus prediction number is only 1 of the possible cross references you can make. There are a few more so you get 3 - 4 different further acid tests, that you again can overlap on each other so a prediction pattern will form if there are any.

The only problem i have with computer play is that i know the behaviour of the clocker and the bettor so i bet i will be able to spot a team within 30 - 40 spins. And if i can do it, so can surveillance. I got a friend in surveillance in a Danish casino and he is by all means no expert in computer play, but he WOULD be able to spot a computer player from what he knows already.  So my biggest issue is that i find it hard to see a bright and long future as a computer player.  With Laurances acoustic system, there are a better opportunity to get a way with VB play because staring in the wheel is a thing of the past. The same goes (to some extend) for Jafcos method and Basieuxs MGM method.