Cammegh Connoisseur Roulette wheels

[forester]

I am wondering did anybody applied any advantage play on this wheel?
Check attachement for some specifications.


   

[Bago]

Yes i know this kind of wheel, this is the wheel applied in one of my local casino here in France, Brittany.
Address:     Corniche de la Plage
City:    Benodet
Postal Code:    29950
Departement:    Finistère
Area:    Brittany
Groupe:    Lucien Barrière SAS

I only played it at my early days with advanced dealer signature, and with some dealers i did found a low edge. Surprisinly and contrary to what some teaches, it was with a fast ball release that the spin was more predictable and consistant.
Now i concentrate exclusively on one wheel which is a Bourgogne and Grasset which brings me good satisfactions until it is gone.

[forester]

I just come across that wheel.
Of course it is not only the wheel that matters but the ball as well.
From what I could see I do not like it at all. The ball decelerates to slow which of course makes prediction less accurate.
I found the FF takes time to adjust because parameters of the wheel are to far from default values.
Once it adjusts I get more prediction. Prediction of failing point
looked reasonably accurate, I assume it's because the wheel is very new and balanced.

But the problem is scatter, it looks that with change of rotor speed scatter drastically changes up to limits where it would be impossible to adjust it. I looked ~2x20 spins and if rotor is 4 sec the ball most of the time jumps 12 pockets, but if rotor is 3 sec or faster the ball jumping across the rotor turns in to more then one revolution.

On my first visit before then I went home I went back to that wheel; I clocked only 4 spins so I can check data inside the FF at home. But next time I did more spins and I found that curve of ball deceleration averages at only 130 ms/ per rotation.

[Bago]

"The ball decelerates to slow which of course makes prediction less accurate."

For your FF yes, because of how it is designed. Real VB consists in detecting the key revolution that will guarantee you are on the right one, meaning you are 100% sure it is this one by good clocking and by previous tracking, having spotted it is at this key revolution which can be 7th, 6th 5th, 4th, that the deceleration is "obvious" by the most milliseconds seperating the ball revolutions deceleration scheme.
I tell you, you are not getting all it needs to design an effective computer because of your lack of understanding/knowledge on the subject. The way you designed your FF prevent the user to get maximum accuracy.
Also i am not surprised your players are asking for improvements, and particularly your zap which occurs at an unknown time and area, asking for the number to be called via an earpiece.

[forester]

I am talking here about leveled wheel prediction.
However slower ball deceleration makes it harder even if the wheel is tilted.
On such wheel you need to define ball speed within 50 ms ad of course it is harder if it is compared to standard Huxley parameters where it would be double.
 

I tell you, you are not getting all it needs to design an effective computer because of your lack of understanding/knowledge on the subject.

I think that I should know the best how effective the FF is and under which conditions. And definitely you are not qualified to make judgment about my engineering skills.

Can't you pick up yourself after frustrations with Stefano and clean your heads from everything that he told you. You go around forums trying to discredit my work without real reason. You were coming here writing rubbish in shout box as I child, so I made that only members can use it. Now you register and trying to do the same.

It doesn't work that way here. If you want to talk about roulette you can, you can have and constructive criticism but you can not disrespect people or you will be banned. That includes recpest for Kelly as well because he knows much more then you.

With you first I had to fight to explain to you why Stefano's computer can't work and why everything he told you that it can do is rubbish. Anyway after 6 months you found it buy yourself but on hard way. Then you turn against all roulette computers, based on your frustration and everything that Stefano told you about the FF. You do not have the FF to make proper judgment. 

The way you designed your FF prevent the user to get maximum accuracy.
Also i am not surprised your players are asking for improvements, and particularly your zap which occurs at an unknown time and area, asking for the number to be called via an earpiece.

You are repeating always same as you do at GG together with Mark Howe.
I will explain it once more, but this will definitely be the last time.

The FF is designed that I can have maximum accuracy.
It is designed for single user and it is not designed to be presentable for sale and for me to make money from selling it to people.

Only one person really asked for number to be called via an earpiece.
Many more insisted on zap. Because it has many additional benefits which you obviously have trouble to understand. I am not stupid to not understand that nobody will complain about added audio and option for team play as long as the FF can keep same accuracy.
 
The reason why I sent the email is simply because I want to find out how many people are interested in audio.
Developing it on mobile phone platform will be the easiest but definitely not the best. All high leveled languages can't do hardware control as I could with the FF designed as it is. I am not interested it designing system to look good for sale but to work the best.  Designing new FF with audio and Bluetooth communication is desirable in small size. I can't manufacture SMT by myself, and since it is small quantity it isn't very cost effective. I have no intention to invest time and money so one day I can get it back by selling devices.

To have advantage in casino I do not need FF with audio. If you think that you can't notice the number under the ball when zap occurs, I definitely can. And I have no intention to convince you the other way. With zap I can play any ball direction without telling the FF in which direction the ball is going.  I can clock the wheel and the ball at any position and each time it can be different. Rotor deceleration can be handled on much better way then if I use audio. Those are definitely important factors in real play.
When playing will I visually spot the ball at #0 or #26 or #32 is definitely less important. I hope that you have no trouble understanding it.
 

 

[nlp2me]

Hi,
Am at the moment trying to identify wheels and which are best to play.

My local casino uses huxley wheels with fretts like the one here.

I assume this could give  possible good advantage as pockets are not as shallow as some I have seen around???

Are there any other tips to enable me to identify wheel types??

I initially thought good advantage could be obtained elsewhere but that wheel is extremely low profile and very shallow pockets.spinners rollers always!!

Thanks.

[forester]

That is the most common wheel. Not so deep pockets as on the old one but it is still ok.
What I found out on them is that spinners are happening more often if the wheel is  old and in bad shape with many dints on the ball track.
One day it may look as no spinners the next day the ball may turn it to spinner every second spin. It may be dependant to weather conditions as well.

[Dr.Spock]

"On my first visit before then I went home I went back to that wheel; I clocked only 4 spins so I can check data inside the FF at home. But next time I did more spins and I found that curve of ball deceleration averages at only 130 ms/ per rotation. "


I am no expert and do not claim to be one- - - but I am learning as much as I can every day about visual ballistics- -  so I will give this one a shot. I believe that casino you visited changes the wheel dynamics on a regular basis.  Therefore, the feedback you get from a certain wheel one day may have no bearing on the dynamics of that wheel the next day. 

To overcome this, I would only trust the dynamics of a wheel based on the feedback I get while I am standing right next to that wheel and never taking that wheel or that dealer out of my eye sight.  If I leave that wheel, even for 5 minutes to go to the bathroom, than all my past data for that wheel will become null and void.  For all I know they could have changed the ball that looks exactly like the last ball, and a change so small that it's not even noticeable by the naked eye- -  but a change big enough to make all one's past data inconsistent.

So , If I was getting positive feedback on a particular wheel, I simply will not go to the bathroom - - - and will not take that wheel or that dealer out of my eye site- - - - Because once I do, than ALL BETS ARE OFF. 

[Dr.Spock]

I will also be purchasing your FF unit in the very near future once I am done my training program of visual ballistics. I am at the stage of memorizing every number on the single zero wheel forwards, backwards and sideways. I ordered an official roulette cover and will also be practicing being able to bet up 17 numbers in 6 seconds or less.

My strategy will just be figuring out what half of the table the ball will land on.  My goal will be to hit at least 50%. So after a record off 100 wins and 100 losses for the day, betting $5.00 on each number ( 5x17= $85), would net me a $1000.00 profit for that day.

I DO HAVE 2 CONCERNS.  My first concern is will I be able bet 17 numbers in 5 or 6 seconds or less.  I'll find out, once my official roulette cover comes in. I'll keep you all notified.

My 2nd concern is that once I start winning, and that dealer sees that I am consistently betting 17 consecutive numbers in a row, they may start to call "NO MORE BETS" a little sooner, to try and bust my winning streak - - - which means that I would have to go to a new table and start all over again from scratch - -  or even worse - -  I may get red flagged by a pit boss and every time they see me - -  they may notify the dealer to automatically call "NO MORE BETS"  a little sooner. IF THAT HAPPENS I'LL JUST HAVE TO GO TO ANOTHER CASINO AND HAVE TO END UP WEARING A DISGUISE THE NEXT TIME I COME BACK TO THAT PARTICULAR CASINO.

[forester]

It's only the new wheel that I come across. It is actually good because it helps me to test when the FF is pulled close to the limit.

You are 100% correct. Wheel parameters are changing specially on leveled wheels.
That is why I added last zap as a control when the ball is due to hit rotor. It works fine but I am still having trouble noticing it while I play at the table. On tilted wheel it is easier to notice changes on the wheel.

It is not necessary that casinos have to move wheels. Even if they do nothing everything may change. I get report where after few hours on polished wheel the ball gradually travels less amount of time. The difference can be even 4 sec. But it could be that day after day conditions are the same.

In your case, I can only assume that you play wheel where there is common drop point.
New ball, new dealer, more people at the table can change it all, but also many additional factors may affect result. With new dealer I do not mean he spins ball differently because good advantage play should predict according to it. I mean that he may with his fingers add or remove materials on the ball which could cause the ball to behave differently.

[Dr.Spock]

No, I do not have a common drop point. What I tested is how many revolutions can the rotor travel based on 7 full spins of the ball.. I divide everything up in to 1/16th's. For example, after the ball travels exactly 7 full spins on a particular table in 1 direction, let's say I notice the rotor traveled exactly 2 4/16th's in the opposite direction.    Once I calculate X, X= the number of 1/16th's slots the green single zero is from the ball at the start of a new roll.
( X equals the anywhere from +8 to -8).

So if the green zero is exactly on the opposite side of the wheel from the starting position of the ball at the beginning of a new roll, than X would equal +8 which would also be the same as -8.  I all ready know the ball index equals 7 full spins , since that's what I am using to see how far the rotor can travel during 7 full spins of the ball.

Here is the interesting part. Let's say that on spin number 5 I record the following: ball index= 7 full spins, rotor index= 2 11/16th's,  X= -2. Lets also say the final destination number for spin number five was 20 black 

Now on spin number 10, lets say I notice x= -2, which is 2/16th's the distance between the ball and the single zero at the start of a new roll. Let's say I also notice the rotor index is also equal to 2 11/16th's like on spin number 5 after the ball traveled 7 full revolutions.  That means I am now armed with everything I need to try and bet 17 consecutive numbers after the ball travels 7 full spins, which would leave me approximately 5 to 8 seconds.

In our case the target number will be 20 black - -  and I would bet 20 black plus the 8 numbers in front of 20 black and the 8 numbers behind 26 black -- - 17 numbers total - - which would be from 8 to 28 going clock  wise. Again, After 7 full spins of the ball, that'll leave approximately 5 to 8 seconds to bet my 17 consecutive numbers.

What I found out is that since that bet consists of nearly half the wheel, and as long as the rotor index and X factor is exactly identical to a previous roll, with the same dealer spinning, using the same exact ball, that I am able to correctly guess approximately 54% of the time what group of 17 consecutive numbers the ball will land on.  Of course I am not making real bets. All I am doing is going to the casino and taking mental notes when I see an identical roll about to occur with the same dealer using the same ball- - -by using the ball index factor , rotor index factor and the X factor.

It's a lot tougher than it sounds because I would have to remember precise fractions from maybe 10 or 20 rolls ago. I could always stand there, right next to the wheel and take notes, and record the rotor index, and x factor of every spin for that particular dealer - - - and usually within 5 to 10 rolls an identical spin will come up from that same dealer using that same ball- - -however, if I attempted to do so, the security cameras would be all over me.  I would only maybe try that at a casino where I never planned on using your FF.  That way, if they ever wanted to search me, I'll have absolutely nothing to hide.

[Dr.Spock]

I also have the book " how to predict where the ball wll land- - - get the edge at roulette" by Christopher Pawlicki, who uncovers the cross over patterns used by Lawrence Scott and other professionals. Lawrence Scott's course sells for about $300.00. Pawlicki's book - -  I bought at amazon for only $13.95 brings me to the same point Scott's $300.00 course would have bought me.

[forester]

If I understood you right, you are observing from some moment in the spin 7 ball revolutions, and then noticing how much the rotor will change for that particular period.
I am not sure why everything is divided in 16ths and not in 18ths but that is not important.

Observing rotor change during fixed amount of rotation creates reversed effect then what we want.
For example if your 7 rotations is done in 0.5 sec shorter time. It means that you start observing spin earlier by x amount of time. That x amount of time the ball make some distance but to you it will indicate as rotor is slower by few pockets.
Perhaps you do not have to play that spin if you looking only for identical spin. But what if the rotor was a bit faster to match up your pattern?
You ending up with 2 errors, which are not canceling each other but doubling.
For this particular case 0.5 sec would mean that the ball would make extra about one rotation, and that rotor is about 1 pocket per sec faster. So it would add extra 6-10 pockets of error. Let's say 45 pockets error and it looked as identical spin.
If you have time look theory of my E2 system.
Because of time as reference and system balance this 2 errors are canceling and each observed ball position after reference time has meaning.

Good saving on books.
It doesn't matter who is writing it if principle of common drop point wheel is explained well. Most what I appreciate to those people is the idea. It is not hard to design system if you know what it should do.

All guys that I know who are using VB have different ways of play.
Laurence's cross pattern is fine; I only don't like his cross pattern requirement for fast rotor. Some people may argue that with some faster rotor speeds you may get some errors canceled, but since prediction is never 100% accurate and since scatter increases you really end up with results all over the wheel. Maybe it may be ok on some wheels but I did not come across them. There is no way that I would play 2 sec rotor even with the FF.
I tried it, prediction up to the rotor is still ok, but the balls used these days in casinos on such fast rotor speed are very unpredictable.

[bendette21]

Yes i know this kind of wheel, this is the wheel applied in one of my local casino here in France, Brittany.
Address:     Corniche de la Plage
City:    Benodet
Postal Code:    29950
Departement:    Finistère
Area:    Brittany
Groupe:    Lucien Barrière SAS

I only played it at my early days with advanced dealer signature, and with some dealers i did found a low edge. Surprisinly and contrary to what some teaches, it was with a fast ball release that the spin was more predictable and consistant.
Now i concentrate exclusively on one wheel which is a Bourgogne and Grasset which brings me good satisfactions until it is gone.

That's good for you, this is my first time to hear that store which had a good kind of wheel. Thank you for sharing that address with the postal code. I think that store has many customers, because of the quality of their wheel.