Huxley roulette wheel 1000 spins/ 20mm ball scatter CW

[forester]

This data is based on more then 400 spins for each rotor speeds.  Then data was simulated to represent 1000 samples.
Data was collected from tilted wheel, only from spins where the ball hits dominant diamond.

One set of spins was where the rotor was 5-6 seconds per rotation and the other one was where the rotor was about 2.5 sec.

The ball used was 20 mm diameter slightly yellow, material probably Teflon.

5 sec. rotor BLUE graph
positions 10,11,12 (marked as "A") from place where the ball is hitting rotor we have the highest hit rate The ball stops on group of 3 pockets 168 times in 1000 spins. Every pocket in average gets hit every 17.8 spins.

2.5 sec. rotor RED graph
Big change
We can see that actual pick point A from previous graph disappears.
It become wider and I marked it as "B"

Pockets around point C have hits every 24.4 spins.

Green line represents average expected hits per pocket.
You can see that pick point B due to faster rotor is shifting to a bit greater distance from impact with rotor. But really it is not worth playing it since it gives us only a small chance.


Most important to notice here is that actual relationship will the ball slightly bounce back and stay around spot where it hits rotor, or will it start bouncing, is changing.

On fast rotor impact with ball is stronger more energy is taken from the ball and more often the ball jumps backwards or stops instantly. That is why we have created new pick point C. It is not so high as A.
But if we want to play fast rotor it looks it is better to play around position where the ball hits rotor.

I was explaining these fey years ago in boys club but here it is again.
Of course this doesn't have to be valid for all kind of balls but definitely it is good to be aware of it.

Pick point C is created from 2 components.
One is when the ball hits and stops there, the other one when it hits the edge and bounces almost 37 pockets.

[securityman]

thX FOR THE POSTING Forester

reminds me of the convo we had that kept me up to nearly 2 in the morning

point being,,,,,,,,,,,I think it would be a great advantage to the player to have this data while hees playing

any thought on this compadre

your very own

Securityman

[lucky_strike]

Thanks Forster.

Cheers LS

[Fatgambler]

Is this a low fret or are starburst?

[forester]

THIS ONE!

[win292]

Sony HD camera is good for porn??? I didnt realize that before.

[saeed1889]

Hi win292

you have any Background pornhop HD Sony camera.

saeed
 

[forester]

I tried to record ball in HD with Sony camera, and this picture is a frame from video.
It is hard to see the ball.

[forester]

17 mm, ball , color white, light in weight

[forester]

Leveled wheel data real 358 spins.


Notice, how pick point around 10 on leveled wheel is actually closer to rotor hits then on first graph. It may be because the ball on first graph is jumping down the hill. 

[manuelon]

Forester, can you put a photo with the ball of 20 and 17 in pockets?
for example 17mm in pocket 10 and 20 mm in poket 5.
Is only to see if the difference is easy to find to the human eye.
Thanks friend

[forester]

Your wish is my command! 

[viper5]

i see also that the 17 is telfon and the 20 is ivory

u know of cource that couse they are from deferent matterials is a big factor that they jump diferently

[manuelon]

perfect forester,
very thanks

[Seikotron]

Manuelon, do you see, the balls are exact equal as our casino. And its 4 different sides. So now you know why we lost when whe lost, and why we win when we win xD. We have 2 big balls (yellow and white) and 2 small balls (yellow and white). Good to know.


Please contact with me as fast as you can Manu

[manuelon]

Yes Seiko, last time we lost was for this reason  . We knew that the kind of ball can bounce/jump different, but we didnt notice it. Is a very usual problem. See you at msn my friend

[Snowman]

Can we see the raw data of all 1k spins.  I just want to paste it into my own spreadsheet to view.

Thanks!

[forester]

Done :-)

[forester]

Hello, Forester.
have been looking into roulette and whilst looking at the scatter graphs you posted here
http://rouletteplace.com/index.php/topic,706.0.html, I was curious as to the differance in
ball reaction in relation to rotor speed.  I know I can observe rotor speed visually and choose
whether to play but have you have ever thought of putting a function in where players can
specify a rotor speed window, for example if I say rotor has to be between 3 to 4.5 seconds
and if it is not what I set it can either not predict or better still tell the player at point of rotor
clocking that its not a rotor speed they may want to play so they can be more informed.

It holds the water only in theory.  Imagine setting the system that way and staying in casino 12 hours to predict 20 spins.  Once the player is at the table he is there to play, perhaps he can skip some spins but not sit at the table and wait for his perfect  rotor speed.  The border in between what will create pick point one or two is never sharp so if the speed is suitable you play or leave.



If you look point A and B on the picture, B is too small since the taken spins are not normal, I deliberately spin al spins so much faster to create big difference to better see what's happening. But in reality if you play, the point B is only showing how with rotor speed increased the ball jumps a bit more.

The FF adjusts for that change because it's common but you can easily set it to increase more, simply by adding  some extra time after last rotation clocked. Adjusting from point A to point C, by computer would be a suicide. No matter at which rotor speed you set the border you simply will not be able to know if the computer predicting properly.  Without knowing what to expect with a ball drop the player would be blind and analyzing it in combination with ball scatter is to slow. I wouldn't like to play 100 spins too find out something is wrong.

If to remaining time after last ball click you add on sec the deviation from 5.5 sec rotor to 3 sec rotor  would  be additional
(37/5.5)-(37/3)=5.6 pockets.

I may have missed something but it seems it may be beneficial to help exploit the advantage
of scatter point more accurately from any graphs made like yours which have taken rotor speed
in to account for ball scatter of a wheel without needing to focus to hard.  Also this extra bit of
information maybe helpful to show if something in the game changes during play, eg ball change
or pressure change etc if the spins played should have a more uniform pattern due to parameters
set.

Well if they replace the ball you have to set it again, each ball may have deceleration curve different.
If it isn't much different for the FFVB2 it wouldn't be much different except the offset might change.
I don't believe much in air pressure change.  A friend of mine did a big research and nothing changed.
Same as red can come 15 times in a row it can happened to point A or B.
Imagine how the graph would look at 3.5-4 sec rotor. A,B,C would be as added creating an average wider area.

As I took here
http://rouletteplace.com/index.php?topic=1223.msg10727#msg10727
from MH video. Understanding that and prediction where the ball drop is never 1 pocket accurate, inaccuracy combined with it only creates one area where the advantage is, you will have it or not.

-18   ..   
-17   ..   
-16   ..   
-15   ..   x
-14   ..   
-13   ..   
-12   ..   
-11   ..   
-10   ..   S
-9   ..   S
-8   ..   
-7   ..   
-6   ..   x
-5   ..   
-4   ..   x
-3   ..   Sx
-2   ..   xxxx
-1   ..   x
0   ..   xxx
1   ..   x
2   ..   x
3   ..   x
4   ..   
5   ..   x
6   ..   xx
7   ..   
8   ..   S
9   ..   xx
10   ..   x
11   ..   
12   ..   x
13   ..   xS
14   ..   
15   ..   
16   ..   x
17   ..   xx
18   ..   
S=spinner

[bebediktus]

Maybe somebody have big database on scatering ball depending to wheel speed? So how  long is distance from ball hiting to rotor till stop in diferent wheel speeds ?

[gambler]

Hello fellow AP's,
Just a few quick questions to those who play both RC and VB.
When tracking wheels, say that we have our scatter graph according to certain wheel speeds. Now, how do we determine the wheel speed if we are playing with an RC? Ive thought about it, and the only conclusion ive come up with is that RC users just look at the wheel and if the speed looks about right, they play it  (if they are familiar with the particular wheel speeds scatter pattern).
Also, with the correlation between wheel speeds and scatter being so intricate, how many pockets extra can we allow when tracking? say for example we are tracking the scatter for a 4 second rotor. We do our timings in 2 second-half rotor intervals. Say that we have 2seconds+2 pockers (so 20 pockets in 2 seconds) should we disgregard this as another wheel speed and only scout an EXACT 4 second rotor?

[gambler]

I should be more clear about the wheel speed part, with VB we can use headcount, however with RC generally we generally do not have as much time as VB to do our calculations. Or is headcount a MUSt when using an RC in order to determine the optimal rotor speed?

[forester]

Hello fellow AP's,
Just a few quick questions to those who play both RC and VB.
When tracking wheels, say that we have our scatter graph according to certain wheel speeds. Now, how do we determine the wheel speed if we are playing with an RC?
Same as when building the graph.
This graphs were made only estimating rotor speed.
Spinning slower build one graph spinning faster built the other one.
When playing it is natural to notice rotor speed with that range.
Nobody ever built graph 2-2.5 s then 2.5-3 sec then 3.3.5 sec  etc. or perhaps even with better resolution. Each of this graphs took ~1000 spins.

I do not believe in any way should make adjustment different then
shifting point A to B. never A to C.

Do not get confused with some con artists explanation.


Red graph on this picture is Genuine winner video analyzed.  His prediction vs. number on rotor where the ball drops.  As you can see it's random however he claimed his computer know where the ball will jump therefore he got good final results.  Fist he claimed the computer is so accurate that it knows how the ball will hit deflectors a and form that it calculates the jump. Of course it was nonsense. After I published this graphs he changed it to; his computer does it based on rotor speed. 

Sadly all spins at his video were very slow so that was just another bullshit.  5.5 or 6 sec rotor doesn't make any difference in ball jump.  If the computer is building a scatter gram form predicted number and final ball stop it is even worst since the graph will need more than 100 spins to show any change.
Regardless of the others I am prepared to listen but I simply do not have a  better solution.

Ive thought about it, and the only conclusion ive come up with is that RC users just look at the wheel and if the speed looks about right, they play it  (if they are familiar with the particular wheel speeds scatter pattern).
Also, with the correlation between wheel speeds and scatter being so intricate, how many pockets extra can we allow when tracking? say for example we are tracking the scatter for a 4 second rotor. We do our timings in 2 second-half rotor intervals. Say that we have 2seconds+2 pockers (so 20 pockets in 2 seconds) should we disgregard this as another wheel speed and only scout an EXACT 4 second rotor?

I should be more clear about the wheel speed part, with VB we can use headcount, however with RC generally we generally do not have as much time as VB to do our calculations. Or is headcount a MUSt when using an RC in order to determine the optimal rotor speed?

If you want to test rotor for 4 sec then set the FFz to timer 4 sec and time the rotor.
If the rotor makes close to one rotation that's the spin for your data.

[Snowman]

The graph represents how far in pockets the ball bounces after it first impacts the frets.
(Coefficient of Restitution test)

Please note, this graph does not represent the scatter from the first deflector struck. 

The graph is NOT smoothed.

Huxley Saturn Wheel with moveable fret ring. DOUBLE ZERO  673 Spins 1/2" ball, dense.
This is a LIVE wheel in use in a real casino.
The wheel speed was 2.2 to 2.5 sec. per rev.
The graph is a standard deviation graph.


      
                  
High      57   0   57      9.46
Low      3   0   3      -3.54
                  
Chance of                  
random (1/x)      3.009E+76      3.009E+76      
Chi square      473.83      473.83      
                  
Average      17.71   #DIV/0!   17.71      
Break even      18.69   0.00   18.69      
                  
80% hi conf.      28.09   #DIV/0!   28.09      
95% hi conf.      30.17   #DIV/0!   30.17      
80% low conf.      7.33   #DIV/0!   7.33      
95% low conf.      5.25   #DIV/0!   5.25      
                  
Best ratio      11.81      11.81      
Worst ratio      224.33      224.33      
                  

[forester]

Thanks

Is it as ~40 hits at position 2?